Steem Sinks


I am thinking of sinks for Steem and two come to mind.

Burn to Promote.
Burn to promote is the future of advertising.

Instead of buying votes, which leads to downvotes and is very complicated for new users, people can instead simply buy Steem and burn it for extra visibility on their content by pressing "promote". A way to easily promote posts has been proven to be desired as we have seen Steemians decline payout and buy votes for the post they want to get more attention on.
Example:

promo.png
^ This user spent $90 to get this post to the top of trending, that isn't chump change.

Burn to promote creates demand for Steem and the burn creates a natural sink. As we get more users, the cost & demand of visibility within the platform will increase, and watch that circulating supply of Steem decrease and watch the price trend upwards!

For instance, on 3speak we are going to have ad slots where you can burn steem or SPK to pop your ad there. On 3speak we are also going to allow creators to use burn to promote on their tokenized Steem communities.

So if someone with a million users ports their community over, users can purchase the creators token, burn it, and get onto trending/ad space on said community. 3speak will buidl the tools for creators to leverage to maximize their profits on their individual attention economies.

I really believe tokenizing attention in a way people need to burn Steem to get extra visibility is such a great way to add utility leading to bullish buy pressure for Steem.

Whoever wants to make a PR for Steemit to have burn to promote (like @steempeak has), I will fund the work required.

Next Sink:

5% burn fee for Instant Powerdown.

While having inflation coming in, charging people to cash out early can offset a lot of the PoB Steem faucet we have. I also believe this will directly result in more liquidity and a higher market cap overall.

Investors with large capital will rarely "YOLO" into an investment (locking up Steem for 13 weeks with no way out = YOLO.) Since Steem has an actual use case, a lot of the stake is locked up and being used, either to power projects or for social influence, voting for witnesses, ETC. This creates very thin sell liquidity which leads to large buy orders never being filled.

Example: If I wanted to buy 10 million USD worth of Steem right now, I couldn't, it would take weeks/months of me setting buy orders and leaving my money on an exchanges for long periods. Large whales will say no thank you to that.

Sell liquidity is just as important as buy liquidity if we want a highly liquid token, so having a way to powerdown instantly, attaching a fee that is burned for the privilege will be a very good thing for Steem, IMO.

@Marki99 added a good point:

One truth about trading and investing: most people sell the bottom, most people buy the top.

This has to be true, cause otherwise there would be no pumps or crashes. When people buy at the top, it’s FOMO. When people sell the bottom, they are simply scared. At both times they act irrationally.
When steem pumps, it is possible to buy the top.

When steem dumps, it is impossible to sell the bottom, cause of the fucing powerdown period. We DON’T allow investors to be irrational.*

And if someone doesn’t sell the bottom, he starts a powerdown and continues selling at higher prices over weeks. We give sellers a better price. We don’t let them act irrationally.

We allow them to dollar cost average (selling not buying) and get better average prices over a longer period.

What this points to is the fact the price of Steem is artificially capped (either to the downside or upside.) While certainly, this is a two-sided blade, the most liquidity comes during tops & bottoms, so Steem misses out on a lot of natural high liquidity spots.

For security, we can have whitelisted withdrawal addresses, when changed, the funds are locked for a certain period. We can also find ways to add 2fa as EOSIO did here: http://bit.ly/38hdA9R

We can give users the option to remove the instant withdrawal feature if they don't want to use it. If they decide to add the instant withdrawal feature back, funds are locked for a period.

So burn to promote & a burn to instant powerdown are my ideas of ways to create bullish sinks for Steem.

Any suggestions? Comment below if you have any ideas for Steem sinks.


Comments 57


Should've done this ages ago so at least STEEM can stay at least above $1. Just my 20 cents.

19.01.2020 04:53
1

::cough cough: err... you mean 0.20 SBD. (Oh sorry the pegs broken so maybe not?)

19.01.2020 05:14
1

I know that this year will be very good for Steemit and the price of Steem, I feel that way and I have my hopes with all these new changes.

19.01.2020 04:57
0

Burn to instant powerdown is a great idea and I'm sure between tokens and SM cards many users would've done this to buy cards, packs, tokens etc....

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19.01.2020 04:58
1

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19.01.2020 05:01
0

@theycallmedan, that's a very good initiative and a great start to achieve more Promotional means for post. It's an awesome idea. Burn to Promote may lead to a very big Marketing strategy for STEEM

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19.01.2020 05:01
0

Hi @theycallmedan I would particularly focus on how to educate new users with the new updates that have been made in our block chain. Many of the new users are entering the blockchain and are investing in SP however I have noticed from what I have read that they are looking for spaces where they can find information that will educate and empower them regarding the use of Steem and the blockchain! Greetings!

19.01.2020 05:05
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It would be good if the 'burn to promote' strategy finally gained traction and it was recognized by all the front ends.

I've been against instant power downs across the board, fee or not, but if it's opt-in people can choose to do so at their own risk. My main concern would be if 5% would be enough to discourage manipulation of stake-based voting.

19.01.2020 05:15
3

Great observation. I didn't go 1% because of the voting manipulation (what we see on EOS by exchanges using users funds to vote themselves in) - 5%, IMO, would be more than enough to curb voter manipulation. Really, the greatest place we see this is by exchanges voting with users funds, it would be illegal for them to burn 5% of their user's funds to vote.

And on the other side, just rogue whales trying to game the system, 5% of anything big enough to sway votes because very expensive IMO.

19.01.2020 05:19
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Instant powerdowns would create a lot of risk. This would need more research although i find the idea very interesting.
5% though really isnt much. As we saw yesterday the market can move 50% in a day. If this creates so much risk then the payoff for the others Steem holders should be a bigger then 5% burn.

19.01.2020 08:19
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@joshman In order to prevent whales manipulating votes, the best way would be to create a powerup period instead of powerdown. It would go that way: once you decide to stake, only some percentage(let's say 10%) of your steem becomes Steem Power every week.

Why this is better: It forces new comers to use the platform for a few weeks before being fully powered up. They can't have all the influence they want in one click. It also prevents the manipulation you were talking about, as they won't be able to constantly power up and down.
And finally, if witness voting is being manipulated before a hardfork, a whale would need to power up weeks in advance in order to get maximum influence, this would incentivize long term hodling for influence.

I still like the 5% burn purely as a sink though. Maybe 5% would be too much and no one would use it so it could be tweaked later.

19.01.2020 11:41
0

Wished these top witnesses will listen to 'ya.

19.01.2020 05:21
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Great call with the instant powerdown option. No serious investor is going to invest in steem with a 13 week lockup. This is actually insane.

I understand that a certain point this was for security reasons, but we are way way past that. This is an antiquated feature (at least in crypto time) and getting rid of the lockup in the way you suggest is an excellent idea.

19.01.2020 05:21
1

Completely disagree. We haven't moved past it. The scammers have gone to greener pastures. This would ring the dinner bell really loud.

19.01.2020 09:38
1

Burn to promote is good
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19.01.2020 05:22
0

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19.01.2020 05:22
0

Front-end implementation is the way to go; unfortunately, there is no consensus when it comes to the front end. It is very much the Wild West.

I appreciate the idea and, if popular front ends choose to run with it, it could be great but there is always be the prospect of that rogue developer that concerns themself more with personal profit than the gain of the platform.

Another thing, if we relent against the bid bots, it is only a matter of time before they slither their way back into use. The big difference is their affect towards the inflation and distribution.

Some of them I'm sure are reasonable folk and will agree with you but there's always that one. (We called them Blue Falcon's in the Marines aka Buddy F*ckers) that is unwilling to forego their personal profit so that all our tokens would appreciate in value.

People being people but, hell, if anybody can pull the burn to promote thing off, I would say you are the guy. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

19.01.2020 05:22
6

I've been told if someone puts a PR for a burn to promote for steemit.com - there is a very high possibility they implement it and make it the standard. I did not get a confirmation, but I believe getting a PR put out there would get the ball rolling.

19.01.2020 05:26
1

I'm with you. Looking at the Condenser GitHub. Looks like this would be submitted as an Issue for Enhancement Suggestion.

Enhancement Suggestions: If you have an enhancement suggestion, file an issue in this repo. Be clear in describing what problem you are trying to solve or the enhancement to existing functionality you’d like to see. Our team will review your issue and offer feedback, accept it for internal development, or recommend community development.

I could draft something up based on your post if you would like. Let me know but, in any case, here is the link to the repo contribution guide.

https://github.com/steemit/condenser/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

19.01.2020 05:32
2

Sure, whatever you can do to help would be greatly appreciated.

19.01.2020 05:34
0

Alright, brother. It's out there. Sorry for the shameless plug in the end. I couldn't resist.

image.png

https://github.com/steemit/condenser/issues/3679

19.01.2020 05:57
2

Oops forgot to link your post for more detail. Unf*cking now

Done!

19.01.2020 06:00
1

Thank you!

19.01.2020 06:30
0

On @steempeak it has already been implemented.

19.01.2020 09:54
1

In earnest burning for power down will make it rational to power up since it'll be possible to take it for just a little fee anytime basically. I'm not really technical, but this Seems reasonable even to the ordinary business minded person

19.01.2020 05:32
1

Not really, if price increase way above 5% from the initial investment.

Also, the blockchain still pay for locked up steem, so, over time, this cost is reduced.

19.01.2020 14:41
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I like the burn to promote/attention method. I think that it would be great to have two options, one where you burn steem to hold a top spot like your example for big spenders

or one where you burn in an auction so you and all the others who promoted for say $1 have their posts alternated depending on how much you set your CPM that way you accommodate everyone and improve the value of attention as more people compete allowing the product to scale and makes the premium spot mentioned above even more valuable

I'd also like to see authors able to have ad spots as "Recommended Posts" if they choose to have people advertise on their posts and they get a portion of the revenue. So if you getting readers to your post and it drives a user to the recommended posts you get a reward for that

19.01.2020 05:56
0

So burn to promote & a burn to instant powerdown are my ideas of ways to create bullish sinks for Steem.

Great ideas, it's win-win for everyone and put the steem price sustainable constantly better price in the long run

19.01.2020 06:39
0

We can have a sort of burn to promote now, if all the bid bots agree to accept bids only from posts who have set null as 100% beneficiary!

Its sort of compromise until we implement more elegant solution.

19.01.2020 08:35
0

The problem with instant power down is the security aspect, where potentially a hacker gained access to private keys and is "losing" 5%, while the owner loses 100%.

19.01.2020 08:44
1

I'd only support instant power-down as a separate opt-in; chosen only during account creation.
Otherwise, we have scammers taking over computers and toggling the option on, themselves, or offering 'tech support' and talking people through the menus to switch on the option.

19.01.2020 09:48
1

You should be able to choose to make your stake secured, as pointed out in the post. Some will choose to allow it to be instantly powered down, others not.

Clearly whales likes being able to sell coins instantly. So you personally can keep the same security we have now, while someone else is buying your coin and taking a 'risk'.

It's a win-win.

19.01.2020 11:46
2

It could be done by signing the transaction with the owner-key/password, that way, even if the person gains access to the active key, he can only power it down within the normal time.

On top of that, theoretically, we could enable to multi-key signing, where the powerdown can only be started with a burn, if the transaction is signed by all accounts. For example:

Bob enables the power-down-burn option with his owner-key, in addition, he adds another account bob-cold as a required participant in multi-sig. Only if a transaction is being signed with both bob's and bob-cold's owner keys, the instant power-down via burn is being allowed.

19.01.2020 14:12
4

Great solutions. Another would be to have as default the current settings, and add a functionality to change to instant powerdown. However, changing to instant powerdown takes a month.

That way, even if someone else gets the active key it will take a month before he instantly powers down.

19.01.2020 16:14
0

it is not only about "Hackers" it can be also phishing. Think about older Users. I think at the moment we have a more casual user friendly solution.

People send there passworts/keys away in emails.... or dont use Steem Connect/ Keychain.

The active key doesnt should get to much power.

One Solution can be, new power ups can use instant power downs with burn via opt in.

The User can usw both.

And in my opinon it is more important to fix SBD with remove or new code like a DAI copy before something like this changed to fast.

19.01.2020 18:12
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Burn to promote already up and running on @steempeak. Steemit is the sluggish one on implementing it like Steempeak do (Steemit has the burn promote tab that no one reads now). Maybe @quochuy can help to upgrade the condenser for it?

There is another STEEM sink already planned on SMT whitepaper, it's called the automated market maker (permanent reserve). Too bad it doesn't make it to SMT v1.

For instant power down with fee I just want it to be optional because I sure as hell want to opt out from it (or not opt in depending on the default)

19.01.2020 10:27
2

And steempeak is more than happy to work together with steemit and others to make that burn to promote in a way sync up or be sort of decentralized info.
And yes if @quochuy is interested they have said they may consider a really well done Pull request.

19.01.2020 12:14
3

This is great news, thanks Jarvie!

19.01.2020 16:54
0

I feel like our burn system that gives the interface the option to have their own ui placement system and fee is the best decentralized option. We would be happy to add other interfaces to the action and send the fee along for placements on their system. Wallet transactions seem to work fine

19.01.2020 23:21
1

We would love to have 3Speak be apart of this. If @quochuy wanted to create the Pull request for Steemit I would be happy to fund the cost.

20.01.2020 00:22
0

Our burn promote page presently looks like this... I think we're more than happy to add 2 more entries for people to add promotion for 3Speak and Steemit.
image.png
You'd get a wallet payment that is proportional to how much they burned and will know how much they burned.

Then it's up to 3Speak and Steemit to determine how those are placed in feeds.

For example SteemPeak.com places them only inside of TOPIC based feeds. Not your follow feed or blog feeds or anything like that just topics and "all topics feed" (which some call trending)

Then we make a decision of how often they're placed.
And we let them choose the topic feeds they go into or if they want a general promotion which means it goes to all topic feeds but is more expensive.

It's a pretty flexible system. We'd love company on this endeavor. We've already had hundreds of promoted posts.

Happy to start a group conversation with you and @quochuy... even if you guys just want to do the Pull Request for the presentation of the promoted posts and just piggy back off our interface for making the burns/payments for now that would help save a lot of time and test it out.

Then maybe @aggroed and his team will also join in for nitrous interfaces.

23.01.2020 14:46
0

Should Steemit just scrap the Promoted tab as nobody uses it? I see you are giving away your rewards on this post. It would be good to see more people who consistently get big payouts doing this or they can just burn some. Do whatever is good for Steem as a whole rather than going for maximum personal profit.

That Insider Report post only got 2 comments so far, so does it do much good to be on Trending?

19.01.2020 11:10
2

With burn to promote I would like a little symbol showing funds were used to promote the post. That way people can see it was boosted by promotion and not organically voted to the top.
I equate this to ads on trending in Twitter. Every once in awhile you’ll see a very low engagement tweet sandwiched in but it says promoted, I can choose to skip it or click because it interest me.

19.01.2020 17:07
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Marking posts as promoted would be good. We also need the blue sellers to show some principled. Just selling votes for junk posts endears them to nobody.

19.01.2020 18:31
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Over on Sports talk social we use burn to promote already. Remains to be seen if it helps.
Absolutely agree about powers own periods needing to be dragged down to a week in my opinion. The simple act of doing this would create liquidity in the markets as people were tempted to sell some of their holding. Any price dips would soon level out as people started investing and buying Steem .
Hodling Steem is not always the best way, it must be used and traded or it just sits doing nothing, stagnating.

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19.01.2020 11:49
0

Great post, thanks for the mention!

Another sink I thought of but don't love is to burn a percentage(let's say 2%) of the steem raised through ICO for an SMT. If there are huge ICOs like in 2017 this could be significant.

But it would also discourage people from doing ICOs using SMTs, which is why I don't like it.

Maybe we can make it optional, and some companies will use it as a marketing tool: if they burn steem, then the steem community will see them as a commited network participant, and may be more likely to invest in the ICO.

19.01.2020 11:58
3

Good to see that sometimes a few people have some actually useful idea based on well thought premisses, instead of throwing random to a wall and see what sticks. (Like redirecting reward to burn instead of directing to people who add Value to the blockchain).

Burn to promote is good, and is already implemented on some front-ends, but since a majority of people still probably use steemit.com having it as a blockchain feature is needed.

The instant powerdown payment is a good idea, but i think 5% is too much. Too expensive. A better idea would be the cost to be equal to the yearly "interest" that is paid for locked up steem, Wich I think is around 2.5%/year now. So, the user/investor would have to choose between recieving this stake increase or sell it immediately. I think is a more balanced cost.

19.01.2020 14:40
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that's the next thing that should have been done way earlier

19.01.2020 16:25
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As for the promotion feature - this is something people (including me) were proposing since 3+ years. Yet, steemit just don't want to listen and the "promote" is pretty much dead - even though it's so simple to fix it...

In the meantime you can check out steempeak.com implementation of the promoting/ad option :)
https://steempeak.com/me/tools/promotions

19.01.2020 19:15
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I have been thinking about the sell liquidity (or lack there of) for a while, and especially after your recent post. I can tell you from a personal point of view, this is a problem of a thin market. If you need traders to trade steem, they don't like thin market. Also it would be nice if there is a way to settle large block orders outside the exchanges in a secondary market. The secondary market can evolve into a dark pool if/when we mature as a proper market. I am sure developers will be quite interested in creating something like that, as that will ensure large block trades outside exchanges without slippage. Its an easy way to bring capital in.

19.01.2020 19:25
0

I really like the idea of burning Steem Power for instant power down.

I would pay for this and think this would be great for investors on the platform.

20.01.2020 00:30
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Thank you @theycallmedan, Actually I didn't know we can promote steem in this way in the absence of buying bots. But this highlights a great way that we can get our posts promoted. Thanks for you support and I will try soon.

20.01.2020 12:45
0

Doesn't burning a token go against the need for more liquidity?

20.01.2020 17:34
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You need both for liquidity. Burns create the need for more supply vs demand, which makes investors bullish, which creates buy orders. You need a way to get your funds quickly and sell them if the price pumps in order to fulfill buy orders. Having a large circulating supply helps with sell liquidity, think Tron, EOS, etc, however, it isn’t a deal breaker, think BTC, NEO, etc. both lower circulating supply coins.

What it ultimately comes down to is creating demand (burn for utility) + availability of sell liquidity when major price moves happen.

EDIT: You also need a third, to help token velocity. Having a use case like locking up for voting, RCs, influence, etc, creates bullish buy pressure that acts like burns as the tokens are taken from the market and held. Steem has 2 out of the 3, missing the ability to cash out instantly for a fee.

20.01.2020 18:42
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Thanks. I think though the limited circulating supply prevents a huge investor to buy, even if there would be instant liquidity. When STEEM price will be higher maybe we won't have the same problem, because the same fiat amount will buy less STEEM.

If cashing out for a fee will be implemented, I would make it a opt-in feature, with sufficient time (4 weeks?) between the opt-in and the possibility to withdraw STEEM instantly for a fee. To prevent compromised accounts from being emptied if they prefer the protection of the power down mechanism. Once an account has opted in and the grace period passed, SP can immediately turn into STEEM for the fee. As many times as the owner desires and whenever he/she wishes.

Either that or implement an alternative protection mechanism which doesn't need a power up / power down process.

20.01.2020 20:00
0

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21.01.2020 19:40
0

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22.01.2020 05:18
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