Tron and Steemit Join Forces

Tron Steemit thumb.jpg

Hello Steemians, as many of you know, last Friday TRON Foundation announced that it had completed a strategic partnership with Steemit Inc. We are super excited about the partnership and we would like to respond to some of the concerns of the community.

Since the announcement of the partnership, these two teams have been working hard to connect with one another and sync up about our respective roadmaps.

Developing a Joint Roadmap

The TRON and Steemit Teams are planning to work together to develop an engineering roadmap that ultimately enables the TRON and Steem ecosystems to form a mutually beneficial connection. There are many ways of accomplishing this which deliver incredible value to both the TRON and Steem stakeholders, and we look forward to exploring these possibilities with TRON’s engineering team.

The Steemit Team is Safe

As some of you may know, it wasn’t that long ago (just over a year) that Steemit Inc. faced an existential threat. Since that time we have been able to tighten our belts while shipping products like MIRA and Hivemind, however, we are still a long way off from using ad revenue to fund operations. Now that TRON has partnered with Steemit Inc., our future is more secure than ever.

Delivering on Our Promises

@justinsunsteemit and his team have made it clear that the most important thing to them is that we deliver on our previous promises. Shipping communities, improving the user experience on, and streamlining the sign up process are our top priorities as we work with the TRON Team to develop a longer term roadmap. Once the two teams are able to come to a consensus on the roadmap, that information will be shared with the community.


We believe that this partnership represents a massive opportunity for the Steem community and we are committed to working with the TRON Team to maximize that opportunity. If we can combine TRON’s resources, engineering talent, and industry-leading platform, with our amazing community, 3rd party applications, and unrivaled technology, we are confident that we can dramatically accelerate the adoption of decentralized systems.

We look forward to continuing our work with you, the Steem community, to accomplish our mission of onboarding the masses to the blockchain.

The Steemit Team

Comments 230

I'm looking forward to learning about this roadmap because it's been kind of a clusterfuck until now.

19.02.2020 22:47

A very poorly executed acquisition indeed.

19.02.2020 23:09

"it's been kind of a clusterfuck until now"

I don't know what a "clusterfuck" is, but if it's anything like a cesspool, I agree 100%.

19.02.2020 23:09

I thought there was some new app or website release this week? What is it? Or did i miss that announcement?

19.02.2020 22:49

What Sun mentioned during the AMA was Communities, which is currently on It seems it may be 2 weeks, aka next week, that it'll most likely go live.

19.02.2020 22:54
19.02.2020 23:51

Justin Sun was referring to the release of beta.steemit into production as the “new release”

Posted via Steemleo

19.02.2020 22:55

Yeah i just saw it, and how it shows blacklists listed in red right by my username and homepage. So i’m done with this for good! Very bad devs here! Whatever i’m out! Good luck!!

19.02.2020 23:38

well you could always try there are no red blacklisted numbers besides your name there :D

you did something that smartsteem was not happy about, and from what i understand there are few lists of spamers, and other types of steem abusers. as i don't know you, and can't tell what was that about, i can't tell if they are right or not, maybe it is just a misunderstanding, or maybe you did something shity i have no idea :)

20.02.2020 00:05

I didn’t do anything in particular, just a leftover blacklist from a long time ago. I asked them to take it off , if they don’t I don’t want to blog here. cya thanks!

20.02.2020 00:31

Bye, bye. Don't forget to turn off your automagical shitposting bots

20.02.2020 01:03

whatever it’s been off and i will turn it back on! idk ! i will stay to flag people idk! Can’t scare me out!

20.02.2020 01:20

@mmmmkkkk311 is attempting to use his flags to intimidate Steemians into abandoning their support for @steembasicincome.

He baselessly claims it is a "ponzi scheme" which just shows that either he doesn't understand how it works or (more likely) he just doesn't understand what a ponzi scheme even is! And the blatant hypocrisy in him trying to fight "vote selling" when that is exactly what he did with his bidbot! As as bidbot owner with over a dozen alt accounts he is in no place to judge what is right or wrong here on Steem. Now he is mad that his scam has ended. So like an upset child, he has decided to take out his anger (caused only by his own failures) on other innocent people. Making him nothing more than a big bully!

MK admits to running a bidbot

[Actual account who was "wrecked by @mmmmkkkk311 (for holding sbi shares)"](


I am here to counter @mmmmkkkk311's bullying. I will upvote every post/comment that he downvotes. You can support my anti bullying upvotes by delegating (links below) Steem Power to @ilovemk311. And you can help keep this message visible by upvoting this comment or by purchasing SBI shares for @mk311isabully which will help to counter the downvotes that @mmmmkkkk311 will surely send my way. Which I highly encourage him to do as the more downvoting power he wastes on me the less he can use to downvote the real content creators here on Steem that would otherwise become his victims!

Choose a delegation amount

5 | 10 | 20 | 50 | 100 | 500 | 1000


I ask YOU my fellow Steemians to help me take a stand for our Steem community.

With this jerk bullying innocent people we are seeing many great content creators leave due to the drama and negativity that @mmmmkkkk311's downvote campaign brings to the blockchain. While he claims he is trying to defend his investment he is actually unwittingly destroying it.

SBI is an initiative that has done nothing but help promote onboarding and community building here on the Steem blockchain. Let us not turn our back on it out of fear for getting downvoted. Instead lets stand up for this great initiative that has helped so many people and helped the Steem community to grow and thrive!

Thank you.

20.02.2020 01:35

Steem for all!

19.02.2020 22:49

Once the two teams are able to come to a consensus on the roadmap, that information will be shared with the community.

And what about the community coming to a consensus regarding those potential changes?

19.02.2020 22:50

Only the top 20 witnesses need to reach consensus, the communities' input is via stakebased voting for witnesses.

19.02.2020 23:00

And if high ranking witnesses are taking actions you disagree with, I advise you to remove your vote for them or campaign for yourself or other witnesses.

19.02.2020 23:02

"And if high ranking witnesses are taking actions you disagree with, I advise you to remove your vote for them or campaign for yourself or other witnesses."

Does that include using their steem power and high reputations to downvote all the posts from members they do not agree with for any reason, like the scumball witness @themarkymark does. That is censorship at its worst, to say the least. And some will even call it fraud.

20.02.2020 00:12

Yes, I literally said if you do not agree with a witness then do not vote for them. That is entirely the point of voting.

If you don't want anyone to vote for a witness, campaign against them or something.

If you think using downvotes is fraud, you need to get off a social platform of any sort quickly. I can only imagine how you must feel when someone doesn't agree with you.

20.02.2020 01:11

"If you think using downvotes is fraud, you need to get off a social platform of any sort quickly. I can only imagine how you must feel when someone doesn't agree with you."

First of all, there is a vast difference in having a post downvoted by someone because they did not like it for some reason, and having a vindictive hateful witness who out of sheer spite and hate, retaliates by going through and downvoting all of a members 100s of posts so as to completely destroy that person's reputation. These scumbag witnesses, i.e. @themarkymark and his band of criminals, have not only done this to me, but have done it to 1000s of members, which is why Steemit was sold, and will likely be shut down sooner than later.

Secondly, no other forum on the Internet offers rewards for posts/comments or curation, and then allows its management and witnesses to downvote all of a user's posts in order to completely destroy that person's reputation and get paid nothing for all their efforts, yet at the same time, pay out 100s of thousands of dollars to those witnesses. If you think that is fair, then I really feel sorry for you, and people like you. Have a nice day!

20.02.2020 01:45

You should follow #informationwar as you may find some people who might upvote you.

20.02.2020 05:07

Adding you back. Thanks for the reminder.

20.02.2020 00:16

I understand that, it's more of a worry regarding the fact that those witnesses and that entire structure itself is merely ignored with changes being implemented without asking the community to discuss and vote first.

19.02.2020 23:06

I try to vote for witnesses that are engaged with community for that reason, so they at least hear feedback from actual people who use the Dapps and site. They don't have to agree, but being willing to hear it matters.

19.02.2020 23:28

"witnesses and that entire structure itself is merely ignored with changes being implemented"

Witnesses should have no say whatsoever in what rules are implemented. When they do, they do so only for their own personal advantage, and not at all for the community at large. Is it fair that scumballs like @themarkymark can earn over $135,000 while downvoting and cheating lower-reputation members out of all their rewards so that their reputations are ruined and they get nothing at all? I think not! I call that fraud, but what else can you expect from such a lousy scumbag?

20.02.2020 00:18

Star World, do you prefer a democracy or a republic? My question is in reference to what you wrote: "Witnesses should have no say whatsoever in what rules are implemented." My second question is, do you like free markets? It is true that Steem has problems. One of them might be relating to witnesses. Another issue is the downvoting which can be problematic. Now, all of this can be pretty complex. I encourage Steemit, I mean Tron, to mirror free markets and a republic type system as opposed to the potential of mob-ruling democracy, etc.

20.02.2020 06:58

"Star World, do you prefer a democracy or a republic?"

A combination of both! While I am certainly pro-democracy, there are instances where there must be a certain degree of control over those who are abnormal in some way and lack the ability to reason the difference between right and wrong.

Would you want to allow a mad man to buy a gun without question, knowing that he planned to use it for no good? Would you want your kids to fall victim to your corner drug pusher, or to some pervert, or perhaps even worse? Would you like to fall victim to a major scam or have your bank account cleaned our with no recourse to get your money back? Would you like to drive your car on a road where insurance was not mandatory, and there were no laws to protect the innocent from the villains? If you are normal, you would not be in favor of any of those scenarios.

Indeed! Without such control, clearly society as a whole would decent into total chaos. Power is not something that you are given, but rather it is something that you take if given the opportunity to do so. When there is no one to stop a power hungry person, they will more than likely turn corrupt and try to destroy the rest of society. History is filled with such people.

20.02.2020 15:16

Are you against the second amendment? Who do you want to help keep your family safe, federal government or you? I prefer local communities over the tyranny and authoritarianism of global government. Do you want government to grow and grow, bigger and bigger? History shows patterns of how people try to take more an more power. But they generally try to do so by pretending to help keep us safe.

20.02.2020 19:44

"Are you against the second amendment?"

No, I am not totally against the second amendment! What I am against however is the fact that there have been no changes to it since its original drafting, to actually define the term "arms".

When the second amendment was first drafted, firearms were no more than single shot pistols and rifles which had to be reloaded after every shot. That fact alone would have made mass shootings as we see so widely today, totally impossible.

The second amendment should be changed. Otherwise one day (perhaps not far off), some mad man is going to come up with a micro-nuclear firearm, and claim that under the constitution, it is his "right" to carry it. Really? If you truly want your family and kids to be safe, you will do all you can to make sure that day never happens. Changing the constitution now would be a great first step.

20.02.2020 22:41

In the 1700's, didn't people own canons?

21.02.2020 02:57

Perhaps so, but they sure did not carry those canons around with them, nor did they qualify as concealed weapons.

21.02.2020 15:36

Did they even have concealed weapons or was that never a real thing?

21.02.2020 17:18

Did they even have
Concealed weapons or was that
Never a real thing?

                 - joeyarnoldvn

I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

21.02.2020 17:18

Of course not! That's the whole point! When the second amendment was originally drafted, none of today's deadly weapons were available, or even comprehended. And that same argument can be used to justify changing many aspects of the constitution, not just the second amendment, and the right to bear arms. In short, the constitution is seriously outdated and should be rewritten so as to be more in line with society of today, not the one which existed in 1787. You cannot step into the future if you leave one foot firmly planted in the past.

21.02.2020 17:34

Did they not have canons?

22.02.2020 02:57

"And what about the community coming to a consensus regarding those potential changes?"

Don't count on it. What management does will be done solely to benefit those at the top, not the rest of us. History has proven that fact rather well. They get rich, and the rest of us get virtually nothing.

19.02.2020 23:13

Will there be any changes or benefits for Steem Power hodlers??

19.02.2020 22:50

It seems that the benefits will be for Tron holders only.

19.02.2020 22:56

That's definitely how it appears so far. I want to believe, but the information released has been so sketchy and contradictory that I don't trust Justin in the slightest.

19.02.2020 22:58

Should we all run off to Weku or Bear Shares or what can we do if all of these things are true or worse?

20.02.2020 07:04

The general notion is that we'd fork in the event that Justin gets a bit too direct with his plans.

20.02.2020 13:50

"It seems that the benefits will be for Tron holders only."

As well it should be! Steemit's management and Witnesses fucked up Steemit to the point that it nearly went bankrupt last year, and yet they made no positive changes to right the sinking ship, other than get rid of 70% of the crew. @Ned thus decided to throw in the towel and sell off Steemit and Steem assets to Justin Sun/Tron for what ever he could get for them, and I suspect that was not much!

Steemit and Steem, for what they are worth, now belong to Justin Sun to do with as he pleases. What he does, whether that is to make vast changes, maintain the status quo (which I seriously doubt), or simply shut it down, is entirely up to him and no one else. I can be almost certain that most if not all Steemit witnesses will be gone, and perhaps even their Steem investments included, or at least have them exchanged for Tron's. This writing has been on the wall for over a year now, yet the vast majority of members were too naive to see it, and the rest were too busy milking the system and their fellow members for all they were worth. It's now time to pay the piper.

20.02.2020 00:32

Nice. People don't want to hear this but I agree with your observation.

20.02.2020 05:15

Prison I hope for fraud and theft from the rest of the Steemit members.

19.02.2020 23:07

Steem ♨ On !

Posted using Partiko Android

19.02.2020 22:51

In Steem we trust

19.02.2020 22:53

Your statement sounds good and promising! I am looking forward to all the positive changes ahead of us! Thanks for the information.

19.02.2020 22:54

Shipping communities, improving the user experience on, and streamlining the sign up process are our top priorities as we work with the TRON Team to develop a longer term roadmap.

Streamlining the sign-up process should be a top priority indeed. But does this mean that SMTs are cancelled? Are you planning to have Steem apps use TRON tokens?

19.02.2020 22:54

While I fail to see where Steemit has any kind of a sustainable business plan, I am quite certain that nothing will result in the total demise of the Steemit forum platform, more so than will some of Steemit's own Witnesses and long-time members. Witnesses like @themarkymark, his sidekick @buildawhale, and long-time members like @steemcleaners @roomservice @bullionstackers @freebornangel @quarantine @bookguy @mack-bot @the-reef @block-power @blockcreate @steemcleaner and others, have done far more to alienate and drive away Steemit members than has anything else.

These witnesses and members are truly the scum of the earth. They don't give a damn about Steemit beyond having the ability to abuse their power to manipulate the system to their own personal advantage, by making sure that the vast majority of Steemit members get nothing for their curator efforts, while at the same time filling their own corrupt and greedy pockets.

Corrupt Witnesses like @themarkymark have stolen huge amounts of money from curators by manipulating the system in their favor, such as downvoting, and so on. They then end up pocketing the vast majority of the curator award pools for themselves and their friends, while leaving the rest of Steemit members (US) with virtually NOTHING at all!
If you would like to remove your Witness vote now, please go here:
Here is the value of @themarkymark Steemit account:

Estimated Account Value: The estimated value is based on an average value of Steem in US dollars.

$134,599.24 (Yes! Almost $135 Thousand Dollars)

What is the value of the vast majority of Steemit Accounts?

My bet is that it is ZERO or close to it, and they will likely NEVER increase much beyond that point, if at all, because the Steemit System quite simply is RIGGED against the vast majority of members by the following members:

@themarkymark (AKA @buildawhale / AKA @roomservice)
@buildawhale (AKA @themarkymark)
@quarantine (AKA @the-reef / AKA @block-power)
@the-reef (AKA @block-power / AKA @quarantine)
@roomservice (AKA @themarkymark)
@block-power (AKA @the-reef / AKA @quarantine)
And Others.


19.02.2020 22:58

See...the prick @themarkymark is now using a downvoting bot to downvote all my posts and comments immediately as I post them.

19.02.2020 23:05

Isn't that because you have acted like a bit of a prick on the platform as a whole?

19.02.2020 23:25

So let me get this straight! Being a scumbag that cheats other members out of their curator rewards like @themarkymark and his band of criminals do, is okay, but calling them out on it earns the label of being a prick. Really?

19.02.2020 23:59

You know what you did.

20.02.2020 00:08

"You know what you did."

Yes, I objected to be fucked by Steemit's scumbag management and witnesses! But now I'll get at least some satisfaction in seeing Steemit go out of business (as least as it has been known), and Steemit Witnesses losing their power and hopefully all their steem that they stole from other members.

20.02.2020 00:47
20.02.2020 02:14


20.02.2020 14:46

SteemIt Inc has controlled a very large portion of the STEEM tokens since its inception. At one point over 50%. Now, SteemIt, Inc retains ownership of about 20% of the entire STEEM token economy.

SteemIt, Inc made various promises and verbal (typed) contracts to the community. SteemIt, Inc even created a hardfork that added the ability for a user to decline the ability to vote for posts or witnesses, or set a witness proxy.

My question is, what is going to happen with these arrangements. What is going to happen with the SteemIt, Inc stake and the millions of tokens that are hiding on various exchanges? Binance has showed that they will use their (purchased?) stake to vote for SRs on Tron.

Will SteemIt/Tron be participating in voting for witnesses via the consensus protocol of Steem? Will SteemIt/Tron be using the company stake to vote for posts? Will SteemIt/Tron use the millions of liquid STEEM tokens to participate in the internal market or the various exchange markets?

I raise these questions in particular due to the fact that @justinsunsteemit has used premined company stake on Tron recently to participate in the consensus protocol by voting for SRs. @justinsunsteemit also uses language like this when discussing his plans for Tron:

Screen Shot 2020-02-19 at 4.57.29 PM.png

As you can tell, @justinsunsteemit idea for how to manage Tron does not really fit with the community and ideals of Steem. Will SteemIt, Inc finally utilize the decline_voting_rights operation?

Thanks for your information and I eagerly await your response!

19.02.2020 22:58

As you can tell, @justinsunsteemit idea for how to manage Tron does not really fit with the community and ideals of Steem.

Exactly this. He needs to be aware that he won't be met with optimism and a warm welcome if he suddenly appears and announces plans that go against the core values of Steem. His lack of understanding of Steem's foundations and lack of interest to communicate with the community should be considered hostility.

19.02.2020 23:03


20.02.2020 04:48

Fall in line or you will be punished.

19.02.2020 23:11


May be a bit much but...


20.02.2020 00:11

That's the best I've seen yet kudos sir

20.02.2020 05:27

lol @drakos, i see at least someone has been paying attention in the past four years ...

20.02.2020 05:26

I think doing this would be vital not only for the sake of the Steem community, stakeholders and witnesses, but also for Tron to successfully gain the community and dApp ecosystem that they clearly have hoped for (judging by the communications). Many want to believe that this can indeed be a win-win as stated in the article, and removing any doubt that another important promise by Steemit Inc on its use of stake will also be delivered on would do wonders to cement this belief.

19.02.2020 23:18

Will SteemIt, Inc finally utilize the decline_voting_rights operation?

This is the sort of signal I would want to see to halt my power downs, and possibly buy more. Right now the pragmatic thing for me is to get as liquid as possible, as quickly as possible, and wait for clarity.

19.02.2020 23:38
19.02.2020 23:49

The wider the scope the better, but I was just thinking of it in terms of witness voting as the context of the quote would indicate.

19.02.2020 23:55

It prevents both.

19.02.2020 23:57

Good! Prevents another attack vector albeit one that would likely be more conspicuous. Btw respect your stance.

I'm concerning that it will take is one Judaswitness and others will be tempted. If that is something that we could expect, hope we nip the problem in the bud somehow.

20.02.2020 00:15
20.02.2020 01:15

It does indeed. It will remove proxies and witness votes.

20.02.2020 01:25

would be really nice to know

19.02.2020 23:49

Well put and I am wondering as well on all these points. Justin is not the most trustworthy.

20.02.2020 00:09

Ninjamine. Not even once.

Yeah I know that hindsights 20/20. Wish everybody the best. Prepare your keisters and don't forget!

20.02.2020 00:10

for those who do not know what the Ninja Mine is , our Blockchain has a shady past

20.02.2020 00:55

Nice good job informing people. This illegitimate stake is precisely what needs to be properly controlled and prevented from being used to destroy Steem.

20.02.2020 01:13

We can thank @ned's ineptitude for the ninja mined tokens to no longer being 40+%. Decentralization takes time. 😎

20.02.2020 14:50

I kept hearing about this. Thank you for posting. I just joined the community and really love the concepts, I wish I got in on it earlier after being a member for such a short time and then seeing all this Justin Sun commotion. #scaredtobuybagsnow

20.02.2020 14:40

decline_voting_rights doesnt really change anything as they can delegate or move to exchanges and back (you know how mrdelegate and other odd accounts came to life). so in the end its at - do they fullfill promises or not.

20.02.2020 00:41

It isnt meant to destroy their tokens or value. If thats what you think is "doing something" then that's fair; but I disagree.

They own their tokens. We just want them to show a good faith "contract" to not purposefully use the stake to undermine the consensus layer or the rewards system.

They could always transfer tokens, power down to a new account, etc. But it would be an obvious violation of promises and an indicator of hostility towards the Steem blockchain and its community.

20.02.2020 01:01

What do you think of 1sp 1witness vote?

20.02.2020 05:25

I am not against it. Someone smarter than me would have to think about the possible pitfalls, but I personally think it makes sense.

At the very least, a user should not be able to vote for more witnesses than is required for majority consensus. Aka, less than 15 votes preferably. 1 vote is definitely less than 15 :)

20.02.2020 17:30

Time to distribute the power held by the creators, they've sold us down the river.

Just when I was having hope again, too.

20.02.2020 18:06

Is your hope slightly renewed? :)

24.02.2020 04:05

Much better now, but that is what I was saying just before stinc became stunc, too.
At least we are acting as a collective, now.
For better, or worse.

24.02.2020 04:32

I promise to do my utmost to represent the Steem community and my witness supporters to the best of my ability. Seems our soft fork has prompted the response we were hoping for so far.

24.02.2020 04:41

Thanks for the link!

At this point we should harden ourselves against false actors.
We put up with that bs long enough.
Maybe we can get some of the tatters out of our reputation.

It remains to be seen if Mr. Sun will accept the community's bit.

24.02.2020 04:52

Yes, we will not step down yet.

24.02.2020 05:07

It weakens the security of the chain generally (lower stake threshold to vote in malicious witnesses) but that may be a reasonable tradeoff to reduce the control of the largest stakeholder(s).

22.02.2020 04:26

If the largest continues to persist in its vision of kneecapping us so we don't change the world, we can just pack it in.

We've gone from stinc to stunc, in that case.
JS bought his stake, let's hope he is onboard with the rest of us, and not here to string us further along.

Won't this change slow any one account from voting in 17 witnesses?
Thereby increasing the stake needed to rule the chain?

How complicated is the coding change?
If trivial, any hope of getting it in the next fork?

22.02.2020 04:41

It doesn't literally do that. Given the numbers, if you assume (probably incorrectly) that a Tron/Steemit bloc would have no other support, then it probably couldn't vote in 17 witnesses, and certainly would have a harder time doing so. But with even some additional support, they could probably still do it. Pretty damn hard to block stake that is 50% large that entire rest of the voting population. In doing so you inevitably weaken the chain against smaller-stake attackers. Still, the compromise may be worth it.

I doubt it is that complicated, and it could be possibly be done.

22.02.2020 04:53

Hmm,...I agree that stake will find friends willing to sell out.
We are playing crapitalism, after all, and easy money is the sweetest.

Am I wrong thinking that voting full sp on 30 witnesses is alot more than voting full sp divided by up to 30 witnesses?

Rather than voting 1m sp 30x, each vote is reduced by concurrent votes on more than one, 1m sp on one, 500k on two, 333k on three, etc.

I fail to see how this would empower small accounts in any attacks.

22.02.2020 05:02

Currently in order to vote in any witnesses small stake has to overcome the full weight of all large stake voting for the 20+ witnesses acceptable to the majority stake, so >50%.

If votes have to be split up then in a minority attack situation, the majority splits its votes across 20+ "good guys" and the minority need only achieve 1/20 (5%) of the majority voting power to vote in one malicious witness (not necessarily all that bad, but strictly speaking undesirable) and 7/21 (33%) to vote in enough to BFT.

It might be good to resplit the governance and block production roles as was the case in Bitshares, each with slightly different rules. The governance roles might favor broader consensus while the block production roles favor tighter chain security. But I haven't thought this through sufficiently; it could open up other attacks or undesirable outcomes.

22.02.2020 05:36

Hmm, can one bad witness harm the chain?
I see what you mean about that concentrating votes on very many fewer witnesses.

Looks like we just need JS to work with us rather than against us.

What do you see as a priority to improve about the chain?
What we have seems to be working as well as can be expected.
When do we go into coast mode on economics?

22.02.2020 05:51

Clearly the harm that can be caused by one witness is small, even negligible (a bit of chain instability, a potentially-harmful but generally-overruled vote on hard forks, etc.). But what about two witnesses? Three? Four? Where do you draw the line?

Clearly at every increment (starting with zero) where more and more witnesses can be installed with less stake, the chain is less secure.

22.02.2020 10:36

Yeah, I see that, but would think the community would catch on and gang tackle them.
How do you feel about down votes for witnesses and dead man switches on votes?

22.02.2020 16:49

Downvotes may have some merit, I haven't thought enough about it. Overall there are various angles that all need to be considred in evaluating a voting system like this and it isn't a trivial effort.

If by dead man switches you mean some sort of vote expiration/decay, then I agree with it, though the devil is in the details. IMO the most clearly supportable version would have votes from completely idle accounts decay or just removed after some period of time, say two years. Other versions are plausible too, but the tradeoffs are less clear.

23.02.2020 00:53

So no elections twice a year?
Vote anytime in between, but all votes expire in March and Sep?
I guess that may be disruptive.

I'll be glad when changes are mostly cosmetic.

23.02.2020 01:05

What do you mean by elections twice per year?

23.02.2020 14:53

Well, if witness votes expired twice a year, witnesses would have reason to campaign all year long, because in <6 months they could be out.
It would light a fire under some of them, and focus parts of the community on conditions.
And favor active users.
Why we worry so excessively about the passive accounts is beyond me.
Play the game, eh?

23.02.2020 16:47

Meh. If witness votes expire frequently then all large stakeholders will just automate renewing them. I know I would.

I'd be in favor of dropping votes from fully-inactive account though. It is a reasonable debate as to whether that means six months, 1 year, 2 years, etc. This wouldn't so much be about campaigning though, since those fully-inactive accounts are likely people who are gone. It would be about not having stale/absent stakeholders still exerting influence, and yes that would include some existing witnesses losing support, which they would have to gain from other voters, or permanently drop out.

23.02.2020 23:32

I'm still liking an affirmative action to maintain witness votes.
Both voting and holding office.

This is a game, it needs to be played.
So, longer than coding a bot is worth, once or twice a year, for me.
This will give us a blockchain holiday to celebrate.

As for dead fish, for sure 2 years, and probably 1, imo.
It will have to hinge on the active key, too many autovoters on zombie accounts.

I guess golos decided that no use of the active key >6 months and you get powered down.
Scared me into changing my keys.
I should have done it when they split into .id and .io, I guess.
All hail that blond guy!

23.02.2020 23:48

Yeah I heard about the golos power down thing. That has some merit, but kind of scary from a security point of view. It mean people leaving accounts idle are put at risk of having their coins swept if the key gets out. I think I would prefer to just stop votes.

23.02.2020 23:59

That powerdown is bogus.
What next?
Steal the coins after X months?

I thought they needed my keys to do that, but,....nope!

24.02.2020 00:31

I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as stealing coins, but still not a good way to deal with the issue.

24.02.2020 00:36

Yeah, I gave up on them when fire stuck burned them to the ground.
Does golos even trade anywhere?

It's a real shame, they could've out performed us, but you know, greedy people gotta greed.

Hated to see you shut your witness, but I get it.

24.02.2020 01:25

I don't know if golos trades, but I'd guess maybe some small (likely shady) exchange. There are so many of them I would find it hard to believe that literally none of them trades it, but then again the Steem/Golos nodes are pretty expensive to run, so the risk that literally all exchanges and even all nodes go away is greater than it is for most blockchains.

24.02.2020 01:40

I got like 400sbd over there, in golos mostly bought at a dime.

Well, i still check my every once in a while.

We appear to be full steem ahead, now!
Hf catch222.

24.02.2020 02:40

dead man switches on votes?

You might be interested to know, Golos(Steem fork) has implemented the automatically started power down for accounts which did not used the active key for 6 month.

23.02.2020 07:58

Why would they do that?

Dead man switches turn off legacy votes.
Active users should have priority, no.

23.02.2020 16:49

Why would they do that?

It works very much like quoting @smooth

the most clearly supportable version would have votes from completely idle accounts decay or just removed after some period of time

23.02.2020 20:55

It works very much like quoting,...


I guess it would be the same reason to nix witness votes.

I just powered it back up and changed the keys.
Now I can just power it back up.

Is there somewhere to turn golos into fiat, or monero?

23.02.2020 21:09


24.02.2020 21:57

Good questions and I encourage them towards transparency so that Steem users can be aware of what is happening. I'm going to try to remain open minded between the pros and cons concerning many things. I'm not totally sure what to think at the moment. That's why I'm here.

20.02.2020 04:46

Presently witness votes multiply the advantage of large stake holders 30x. @edicted seriously proposes changing witness votes to 1Steem=1vote, which is how DPoS should work to effect governance.

While this change would impact @justinsunsteemit's ability to exercise arbitrary governance of Steem, it would not eliminate his ability to exercise the stake he controls to effect governance of Steem rationally. I strongly support this proposed change to how governance of Steem is effected.


20.02.2020 16:19

Have there been any discussions with the Tron team about the will of the witnesses and the token holders they represent? There have been many concerning posts from the Tron marketing team (including Poloniex) describing a token swap of “old Steem” tokens to Tron based tokens. I hope it has been made very clear to the Tron team that the witnesses are ready to support the chain as it is now because that is the job we are elected to do. If the token holders want a change, we’ll listen, state our positions, and they will vote accordingly.

That said, I think the potential for new marketing, promotion, resources, and development could be fantastic for both communities. I hope they join together for mutual benefit while respecting the many years of work and commitment that got us here.

As a witness, I look forward to connecting with the Tron team and discussing the history of this community and what expectations we are facilitating.

19.02.2020 23:03

There have been many concerning posts from the Tron marketing team (including Poloniex) describing a token swap of “old Steem” tokens to Tron based tokens. I hope it has been made very clear to the Tron team that the witnesses are ready to support the chain as it is now because that is the job we are elected to do. If the token holders want a change, we’ll listen, state our positions, and they will vote accordingly.

Thanks for giving me another reasonable witness to vote for. This is how change should be addressed.

19.02.2020 23:29

They could be thinking of some kind of Pegged-Steem on Tron.

20.02.2020 00:57

The token swap spells is a hint of the death of the steem chain. A bigger blow to the steem community could be the air drop as well as the minting process. We don't even know how many new Steem tokens will be in circulation, and of the new tokens how much the Steem community will own as a percent vs what is gifted to the tron holders who will probably dump them.

As far as witnesses, every 3 seconds or whatever Justin Sun can replace one top witness after another when he is ready. If you want to save Steem, vote to destroy his ninja mined coins or freeze them and remove his voting rights if at all possible. If it important to act quickly and before takes control of the top witness nodes.

Justin Sun doesn't appear to be a fan of decentralized chains. His cofounder quit tron over the issue of not being decentralized. .

As far as Justin Sun and Marketing. This is how he markets his own coin (language is NSFW).

Seems quite a few Chinese projects let a single person own a bulk of the coins and distributes a smaller percentage for the rest of the market to fight over, including ribble*...I mean ripple. While Justin Sun peddles his crap coins, he is able to devour valid decentralized systems and other emerging technology literally for what he admits is crypto crap. Steem Coin used to be pretty popular in China, I wonder how much power China will have to delete content when the top witnesses are owned by Sun.


-winnie the pooh aka the Chinese President, owned by Disney or vice versa depending on context.

  • Apparently the Chinese Tron HQ is named Ribble.
20.02.2020 04:08

Are there other good posts out there talking about the potential dangers of Tron, assuming there are some? I should write some articles about these things. I want Tron to prove me wrong and show me that they're not trying to obtain too much power over the Steem blockchain and everything. I don't want to say Tron is doing that but I cannot currently say they aren't. So, I will try to keep my eyes open to everything that is happening.

20.02.2020 05:03

Some of the arguments I have heard on msp waves. The names of whom, many I do not recall. Aggroed would be a good voice of reason to listen to since he not only is a top 20 witness, but he is also behind very popular dapps on Steem. Pay attention to what other top 20 witnesses are saying too.

20.02.2020 06:09

Are the top 20 Steem witnesses Pro-Tron, completely, partly, to an extent? Are they fighting this Steemit Inc Tron merger thing?

20.02.2020 07:30

A few things I forgot to mention in my original post about the minting process, is we also don't know how many new steem Sun will claim for himself/any foundation/strategic partners. The mintage and ultimately the distribution is of the great concern .

here is an article from coin telegraph

I found it on this steemituser's post (link included)

I don't really pay much attn to who the top 20 witnesses are. I think I can name maybe 6, some of whom are posting/reading here or at least mentioned here. Here are a few of them and what they either post or resteem about steem-tron. In some cases i'll just name them as posting/resteeming quite a bit, but otherwise there is still a chance I accidently missed a witness or post.

here is a posy by markymark prior to the AMA . He also resteemed the real wolf (top 20 witness)

someguy123 resteemed and aggroed's (top 20 witness)

Drakos merely resteemed justinsun's first post to steem.

therealwolf posted a thread that as mentioned marky resteemed. the wolf also resteemed an interview with andrarchy (steemit developer) (

aggroed has posted quite a bit for/against. Ausbitbank, lukestokes, and good-karma have resteemed quite a few articles on the topic.

thecryptodrive posted prior to the AMA

clayop resteemed pharesim's (Whale?) post , some steemitdev posts on the topic, and one or more post in korean

20.02.2020 16:46

Bitcoin Steem Similarities?

I don't know if I asked you, but does Steem allow for anybody who runs Steem on their computers, servers, etc, to be a witness, technically speaking, similar to how anybody who is mining Bitcoin is technically a miner?

Witnesses vs Miners

I know Steem has the top 20 witnesses, but is the 21st witness still a witness? Are there limits to how many witnesses there can be? Does a witness have to be voted for in order to be a witness?

Peer to Peer (P2P)

I would prefer that Steem allows people to mine Steem like people mine Bitcoin or to be Steem witnesses similar to how IPFS and Bit Torrent works. I don't know if Steem allows for this already or not but that is what I would prefer, that anybody can run Steem to help decentralize Steem, to help backup the data running on Steem as the more the computers the better.

20.02.2020 19:39

Steem used to be mined long before I joined. There are witness "producer" rewards, but I am not sure how they function or. see for example

It also appears that witnesses not in the top 20 can still get producer rewards. see

I've never set up a witness node. I hear they are hungry for RAM-and ideally you need hardware that is probably better than what is in your typical budget home pc [not that I shopped in years]. But I would suppose that anyone who has the money for such a system, a good enough internet speed, and knows how to use or is able to learn how to use unix/linux could run a witness node. There are cost associated with running a witness node. Ignoring any labor costs they include: the financing of the machine; the electricity to run it or for cooling, and; maybe a higher monthly bill for internet. This may not be profitable nor possible for everyone.

People get to vote for witnesses, and the rank is based upon the sp of those votes. The old saying, "building a better mouse trap isn't enough" is true. Steem is a better platform than tron, but tron won in the marketing department. To be a top 20 witness doesn't mean going out and making a custom made system by itself, but marketing why you should be voted on as a witness....particularly to the major stake holders.

21.02.2020 00:10


I use Ubuntu and it is not hard. Plus, fiber optic Internet is faster than 5G. Long story short, people could do a lot more if they simply built or customized their computers.


I can assemble tower desktops and I can say that it is possible do a lot via things like Bit Torrent, IPFS, etc. I would encourage Steem and other social network blockchains, etc, to let people seed Steem either completely or partly.

Completely or Partly

That is how Bit Torrent works. They let you decide which videos, photos, files, etc, you want to download. Plus, they let you seed, AKA upload or distribute it back to others, that is peer to peer (P2P). In other words, they should give people the option to simply share and not share however much they want.

Share The Load

That would let people with smaller computers, devices, to at least help share the load if they want to. It should not be all or nothing but customizable to the individuals.

Compensated Adequately

And each individual should be compensated and paid for seeding, for helping, for sharing. If Steem does not do this, assuming they aren't, then they'll fall behind and competitors will rise above. Steem should consider these things if they're not already.

21.02.2020 02:53

Luke, you are thinking win-win, AKA mutual benefit, and I agree, and I hope they don't try to do what Facebook does. I'm not saying they can. I'm just speaking theoretically to an extent, meaning they could try. I don't know one way or another. I'm just thinking hypothetically, long-term speaking, as I'm concerned with slippery slopes, AKA the ability for good things to declines towards potential risks, problems, relating to censorship. The only thing more critical than censorship might be in regards to the mechanism behind voting for witnesses, who gets to vote, the weight of the votes, the whole system, which could be dangerous if Tron were to have too much power over voting for witnesses. Well, I'm not sure how it works. So, I can't say Tron has too much power. I'm just saying that if they do, then that can be dangerous. But then again, maybe not dangerous. But the possibility is still there.

20.02.2020 04:57

What about the SmT's?

19.02.2020 23:05

Still doesn't say much about what's going to happen concretely.


19.02.2020 23:08

"Still doesn't say much about what's going to happen concretely."

Indeed! I think it's rather hard to lay out the aspects of a business plan, when there is no business plan. Steemit hasn't had a business plan in 2 least not a viable one. What makes you think they have one now?

19.02.2020 23:52

What will worth Steem Classic if Steem is a Tron token?
Steem should stay Steem cause Steem Tron will be used only mainly for gambling and speculating.
What to do? Let's vote

19.02.2020 23:14

"What will Steem Classic be worth if Steem is a Tron token?"


19.02.2020 23:54

So beta.steemit is not more beta?

19.02.2020 23:18

In new website how do I check the posts by person whom do I follow. I think there is no option for that pls explain.

19.02.2020 23:21

Appears to be a glitch in navigation, I commented about it as well. For now you can manually go to your feed by adding /feed to your profile address.

20.02.2020 00:51

A bit off topic, but some immediate feedback necessary on the beta features rolling over into the live site....

I can’t seem to find a link to my “feed” anywhere. I can manually append /feed into my browser address bar and see it, at which point “my friends” appears in selection menu with my communities, but it does not appear there natively from the front end in any other manner I can find. This is on iOS, Brave browser in case it’s specific.

19.02.2020 23:25

if you click on Steemit logo (think it is home page) and then click on the My friends you will get your feed.

but you can alway try (should i even do this on steemit post? :) )

20.02.2020 00:10

I don’t think anyone minds the SteemPeak plug! They’re friendly rivals! I do need to play around with their beta more. But yeah, the navigation you’re describing used to work on the Steemit beta but has been broken for me for a while. I wasn’t concerned until I see it rolling over into the live site! The “friends” feed does not show up as an option...


Through any means I have tried normally navigating through links...

But it does magically appear when I manually type in my feed address in my browser search bar, which of course negates the purpose of the link! 😆


20.02.2020 00:45

i just now seen the misunderstanding :D i don't use it on the phone :D

so it is highly possible that it is a bug.

20.02.2020 01:18

Might be nice if Steemit Inc would tweet this one here to, so that Justin Sun can retweet it.

19.02.2020 23:30

i really like the updates in

Really nice :)

19.02.2020 23:53

Pretty entertaining!

19.02.2020 23:59

Yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here. I just hope that he won't be using his stake on Steem like he does with TRX. Call me Elmer FUD but this doesn't exaclty install with confidence.


20.02.2020 00:06

I didn't know there was a Tron community. How is it doing? If it is not doing well, then we should be talking about that on the assumption that this boat could sink as well.

20.02.2020 07:00

Once the two teams are able to come to a consensus on the roadmap, that information will be shared with the community.

I like seeing the word consensus. Seems good place to start in theory, but concerned about how it plays out in practice.

20.02.2020 00:11

Particularly in view of the fact that @justinsunsteemit now holds the stake necessary to control the consensus mechanisms of both Tron and Steem, and has just demonstrated willingness to use that stake contrary to his prior affirmations he would not use it to effect governance of Tron. His affirmation recently he would not use his stake to effect control of governance of Steem seems untrustworthy in view of his actions on Tron.


20.02.2020 16:35

You are right that certain actions and characteristics of him have eroded trust.
The whole point of the blockchain is we shouldn't have to trust anyone. Just the fact that I need to trust him in any capacity makes him suspect.

22.02.2020 01:58

The present witness voting system is why his stake necessitates our trust. Stake is able to vote 30x. The multiplies the advantage of large stakeholders over lesser 30x. This why I advocate for 1 Steem = 1 vote for witness, because it eliminates that multiplication of stake weight for witness votes.

Large stakeholders still have more weight to vote with, but proportionally to the amount of stake they hold. If the founder's stake, now no longer in the wallet of the founders, is used to control the consensus witnesses, either by @justinsunsteemit against his assertion he would not, or to whomever he sells it to, such as Zuckerborg, or Goolag, under the present rules it would be extremely unlikely the community could focus enough stake to prevent a HF contrary to their interests.

1 Steem = 1 Vote makes that 30x more likely.

22.02.2020 07:21

1 Steem = 1 vote is an interesting idea. However, enough witnesses could still be bought to completely mess with the consensus over and over again until he gets his way so actually I'm against that.

22.02.2020 08:47

I reckon the more stake someone possesses, the more they'll be in favor of the status quo. The 75 Million SP the sale of Steemit, Inc. delivered to Tron, when multiplied 30x, is 2.25 Billion as votes for witnesses. With 1 Steem = 1 vote that 75 Million will be 75 Million.

While 75 Million SP is presently enough to install ~1/3 of the top 20, it is not enough to control the consensus. Messing with consensus is far less problematic than possessing it at will.

There's no law that prevents Tron from reselling that stake to Fakebook, Twatter, Goolag, or some other censorship happy institution, and I expect all those institutions would quickly undertake their sole option to exercise total control of the code having total control of the consensus would grant them.

That @justinsunsteemit hasn't done this is proof of his benevolent intent towards Steem IMHO. That @ned sold to Tron instead of one of those other institutions is proof of his as well. But this may not be the end of the matter, and I expect @justinsunsteemit will agree that Steem will be more secure if the 30x increase in power larger stakeholders have over lesser to control the consensus witnesses is removed in favor of equitable distribution.

But who am I?

22.02.2020 15:28

It makes sense. I imagine first and foremost everyone wants to make money on their investment. I do know he actually bought some of the tech, but the majority of Steem is still free to use and fork or whatever. But I can't even see a fork as a viable option unless he does something really messed up. Too many people would side with him if some decided to fork him out just because Tron and Justin make them sad.

I do think your idea is worth considering in the next hard fork after SMT, especially if the power down time is going to be reduced further. Another idea is to have STEEMIT accounts use the novote feature which would mean they would have to go through a power-down cycle (power down then power up) to cancel that giving everyone enough time to react.

23.02.2020 02:31

Will steemit keep it's name and will it keep using steem coin or switch to tron?

20.02.2020 00:13

Haven't heard from the @elipowell account in a while. Is she still with us?

20.02.2020 00:28

Yes! Still here, just super busy with all things...

20.02.2020 02:38

Hi @elipowell as I hear in so many posts, the community love to get a clear message of what's happen to:

a.) the Steem token

b.) the witness activities from TRON/Steemit

c.) the voting power from Tron/Steemit

Love to get your answer as many people are confused!
Greeting from Europe

20.02.2020 08:27

don't think she'd answer that before makes any official announcement

20.02.2020 18:02

At least I asked....

20.02.2020 20:35

I only use my phone to interact with steem. It looks like there is not a feed button on my phone for communities. I have to manually go to my /feed domain to get there. It would be helpful to have a feed button to get there. Just a thought. 😁 I might have missed it.

20.02.2020 00:29

The Steemit Team is Safe

That's cool, and good for these guys that held on with the community.

But when will the main question be answered:

**Is the steem blockchain safe?

Is there a swap or not? Will everything move to Tron and the support on the blockchain will cease?

Please, enlighten the community.

20.02.2020 00:44

Sic semper tyrannus,...

20.02.2020 00:46

et tu brute?

20.02.2020 00:58


20.02.2020 01:33

Meh tu Brute ?

20.02.2020 01:34

Idle threats, empty promises,...

Exile to all who act against the community!

20.02.2020 01:42

I am still stuck on Suns choice of imagery on Twitter. When you play Jenga, the tower eventually falls down and scatters all the blocks. It may be nothing or it may be a warning to us that he has the power to knock down all the blocks if he doesn't get his way. Or maybe it's his way of showing dominance that he's already toppled us?



Also, many people have "promised" many things and have gone back on their words. So how can we even "trust" anything you write or say? And, what has been written or said so far about the acquisition is generic and clear as mud at best. You are simply placating Steemians to buy more time.

I think you should create a smart contract that pays all STEEM holders every time you lie, go back on a promise or misrepresent timelines. This way we don't have to trust you. So each time we get screwed we at least get paid!

I feel sorry for the Steemit Inc employees that were fired due to Ned's incompetence and ego. His ego made him deaf to all suggestions from the STEEM community. Hopefully this time around you will listen to the Witnesses, Developers and STEEM community at large. We have so much talent on this Blockchain but egos need to be put in check. Had he listened, maybe Steemit Inc would have been in a position to make Tron obsolete. But instead, you must Bend the Knee.

20.02.2020 00:46

I agree. I am not sure if we can trust them.

20.02.2020 07:02

only trust a Smart Contract

21.02.2020 14:57

Good to hear that the SteemIt, Inc. Team is still safe and I am looking forward to hearing the plans when they are more defined.

20.02.2020 00:59

I guess I can't find a reply from Justin because Bernie was lurking here before me

20.02.2020 01:15

whats going on. I want to see my following user's post.

20.02.2020 01:17

if you are on mobile, you may have to manually enter

on desktop “my friends” looks like is the new feed.

20.02.2020 01:30

thanks for your help

20.02.2020 04:29

Thanks, Geek Girl.

20.02.2020 05:04

People are mad as hell 🤷🏼‍♂️😂😅

Posted using Partiko iOS

20.02.2020 01:24

Every day, no matter what the topic is.. Mad as hell.

20.02.2020 05:39

People need to wake up everyday with a smile on their faces like I do :) lol

20.02.2020 07:57

What about SMTs? Are they still happening?

20.02.2020 01:27

I assume that you knew that Sun said yes in AMA.

BTW, maybe you can get people pass the Steem Torch to Sun and see how it goes.

20.02.2020 07:59

I fear that it will turn it off.

20.02.2020 20:32

exactly my question. I also miss the SMTs here, given that we are waiting for quite some time for them.

20.02.2020 11:02

20.02.2020 01:40


20.02.2020 01:53

Thank you! It's clear now and I think it's great news.

20.02.2020 02:09

ultimately enables the TRON and Steem ecosystems to form a mutually beneficial connection.

I personally see absolutely nothing beneficial TRON may offer me except money to fund you guys..

I find TRON to be a centralized piece of shit blockchain that is almost completely controlled by Justin and Binance. (Kinda kills the point of a blockchain, doesnt it.)

If you get funded to continue working on STEEM, im happy with that.
My biggest fears of Justin attempting a powerplay to become a "De facto" owner of the chain still remains and i think that should be addressed before anything else.
We need to put in safeguards in place.
We need to keep Steem decentralized and this purchase by Justin clearly shows how vulnerable we really are.

20.02.2020 02:13

It's baked in the cake.
Proof of stake bites us in the ass.

20.02.2020 05:09

Well, not really. The last 2-3 years of inflation really pulled us out of being just like TRON and as time goes on we will become more and more decentralized due to distribution.
Right now Dolphins+Orcas outweigh Justins stake here. That wasnt the case few years ago. Stinc used to have 50%+ stake in Steem.

20.02.2020 08:52

I know what you mean an I'm well aware of this. But now when we're kind of in the spotlight the things can change overnight. A couple of big investors can clean out the exchanges and our distribution is skewed again.

20.02.2020 23:19

Considering your concerns, I hope you will advocate for changing witness votes to reflect how DPoS should actually work. Presently 1 Steem = 30 witness votes, which multiplies the advantage large stakeholders have 30x.

It is proposed that 1 Steem = 1 witness vote. This is how the community of stakeholders should effect governance via DPoS.


20.02.2020 16:27

Id like to see multiple options be presented and scenarios played out to see which option is the best.

20.02.2020 17:30

I resort to sound principle when considering things, and I think you tend to as well, which is why we agree so often. DPoS is based on stake creating and resulting from greater skin in the game, and stake should therefore be an accurate representation of governance, which 1 Steem = 1 vote is.

20.02.2020 17:42

It isn't a matter of how it 'should' work. The current system is an approximation of approval voting (in fact, under true approval voting the number of votes would be unlimited, but this was changed not for any governance reason but due to an exploit concerning backup witnesses).

Approval voting has the property of electing the witnesses which are approved by the broadest and maximum amount of voting stake. Under most conditions this would be good, as it sets the maximum threshold for an attacker to come in with a narrow amount of stake and elect witnesses contrary to the broader consensus.

In this case, what people are trying to accomplish is not to represent the broadest and maximum amount of stake, but in fact handicap the largest stakeholder (who in fact has an absolute majority of actively voting stake). In a sense, this is exactly the opposite of what good, secure, governance would do.

That being said, it may be a reasonable tradeoff (lower security for less majority control) to limit the influence of the largest stakeholder in this specific situation.

22.02.2020 04:35

Presently the witness voting system multiplies the advantage of substantial stakeholders 30x over lesser staked voters.

Given Steem's situation has evolved from when the founders held the stake they mined, and now that stake is no longer in the hands of the founders, it's best to remove the mechanism that allowed them to exercise instant governance of Steem at their sole option, which is what the 30x votepower did.

Theoretically the community could band together and prevent that stake from completely effecting control of consensus witnesses, sooner or later. In reality one stakeholder will be focused on a purpose, while hundreds or thousands will be diverse instead, and will be very unlikely to focus enough to successfully oppose that stake if it is deployed malevolently.

Tron could sell to Goolag, and then we'd end.

Representing stake 30x does not increase the range of stake represented. It simply increases the advantage large stakeholders have over lesser stakeholders by 30x.

It's a vast increase in security - not a decrease, to change witness voting to 1 Steem = 1 vote.

22.02.2020 07:07

Presently the witness voting system multiplies the advantage of substantial stakeholders 30x over lesser staked voters

No it doesn't. Everyone has the same 30 votes, both big and small alike. Both stakes are multiplied to the extent that all 30 votes are used.

1 SP = 30 SP worth of votes
1 million SP = 30 million SP worth of votes.

There is no systematic multiplication of larger stake over smaller here.

What multiple votes (approaching approval voting) does do, is a better job of translating the choices of the majority of stake into a set of witnesses.

Given Steem's situation has evolved from when the founders held the stake they mined, and now that stake is no longer in the hands of the founders

I don't necessarily disagree with your point here, but realize that what you are proposing is enabling a sort of attack where the minority stake (about 40%) is given increased power, because the majority (about 60%) happens to no longer be owned by founders.

That certainly 'feels' like a good thing in this particular situation, but it wouldn't feel like a good thing if the 40% were in the hands of someone trying to cause damage and the 60% were in "good" hands. The existing system is more secure because it would keeps that from happening; the proposed one would not.

Again, this could be an acceptable, even perhaps desirable, tradeoff, but don't fail to recognize it for what it is.

22.02.2020 10:31

You can say what you want to, but the example you pose proves my point. The holder of 1 Million SP gained 29 Million, while the holder of 1 SP gained 29, a difference of 28,999,971 in favor of the larger stakeholder. The 30x increase in SP of larger stakeholders dramatically increases their influence over the witnesses, and I reckon the founders did this in order to be able to attain instant total control of Steem governance at their sole option, which the founder's stake enabled.

It enables that control still, but the founders no longer possess it.

If removing the back door to total control over Steem, or the massive grant of power to larger stakeholders over lesser, is considered an 'attack' then so is surgery for cancer.

There is no reason to continue practices that benefited the founders when those founders areno longer here.

22.02.2020 15:07

Honestly that is a silly argument. In any system of votes if you multiply everyone's votes by 2 or 10 or 1/2 or a million, everyone still has the same share of the votes.

The multiplication does not do what you claim.

There are good reasons for approval-type voting in this context which have nothing to do with the founders wanting to have had complete control. In fact, originally the founders had a much larger share than Tron has now, and probably would have had complete control

What you are trying to do is give more influence to a distinct minority stake. That's laudable in some sense, but you can't avoid recognizing that weakens the security of the chain, which relies on: a) the majority being honest, and b) maximizing the threshold that a dishonest minority much reach in order to gain influence.

23.02.2020 00:50

"In any system of votes if you multiply everyone's votes by 2 or 10 or 1/2 or a million, everyone still has the same share of the votes."

I disagree. While proportions may remain relatively the same, in real terms the larger stakes effect greater influence over the witnesses. 30M votes greatly outweighs 3M votes in an election, and it doesn't matter at all that they are proportionately the same. In real votes they are dramatically divergent, and that's how witness votes are counted.

But you know that.

"What you are trying to do is give more influence to a distinct minority stake."

Well, if you acknowledge that substantial stakes are overrepresented in real votes by allowing them to vote their stake 30x, and what I am advocating is only allowing people to vote their stake once, then yes, I'm seeking to increase the influence of the lesser stakes voters to what is proportional to their stake compared to the pool of stake voting.

However, how I seek to do that is not be increasing their influence disproportionately to their stake, but to eliminate the disproportionate representation substantial stakeholders are allowed in witness votes.

So, phrasing it pejoratively is unimpressive. What is necessary to improve security of the witnesses with the founders stake in the wild now, is to eliminate that disproportionate influence allowing that massive stake to vote 30 times. The witnesses aren't voted proportionately, but actually. The Steem backing them is what counts. Larger stakes voting once wield 30x less Steem in real terms than they do voting 30x.

But you know that.

"...the security of the chain, which relies on: a) the majority being honest, and b) maximizing the threshold that a dishonest minority much reach in order to gain influence."

This is no justification for granting large stakeholders 30x more votes. That's a ludicrous argument, because whales and orcas alone wield more stake than all redfish, minnows, and dolphins combined. Those lesser stakeholders, the majority of the voters, aren't the threat to the security of the chain.

It's the whales that are the minority with a majority stake that is a threat to the security of the chain, and particularly the one stakeholder with ~1/3 of extant stake, because 30x over representation grants them inordinate power to influence the witnesses.

Do not misrepresent these facts any longer. It is facile to see through your mischaracterization.

23.02.2020 01:52

We will mostly have to agree to disagree.

But one last time:

and particularly the one stakeholder with ~1/3 of extant stake, because 30x over representation grants them inordinate power to influence the witnesses.

Except that it is isn't 'inordinate'. In a perfectly fair system, a vastly larger stake should have vastly larger influence. In simple election terms, 51% wins and 49% loses. We just don't really like that outcome at the moment, so we try to come up with voting rules that gives 49% a change at a partial win. This obviously also gives any minority attackers a chance at a partial win, making the chain less secure in general.

23.02.2020 14:47

I will agree that I am disagreeable. I just tossed you a witness vote BTW. You clearly have the patience of Job and the diligence of Noah coupled to a sincere dedication to Steem to have spent the time and effort to discuss this with me.


23.02.2020 15:48

Thank you for the vote, though no longer needed as I have decided to step back from full time witnessing. (see @smooth.witness post)

23.02.2020 23:34

While I am disturbed that this was your preferred option, given the circumstances, I well understand why it was.

Strange, but timing is everything.

I have moved my witness vote thanks to your timely announcement.

Thank you for that.

24.02.2020 00:52

steemit is a best site any query related to steemit pls contact me

Posted using Partiko Android

20.02.2020 02:46

Is Steem going to be phased out?

20.02.2020 02:59

Blink twice, if you are being held captive.

20.02.2020 04:21


20.02.2020 04:31

20.02.2020 05:30

So now you're being properly paid, you're back to work?

20.02.2020 06:07

Thanks for update, will check what Tron is up to...

20.02.2020 06:29

Well, I have to say the Steemit main page is much improved.
But you should do some tweaks to the posting page. Some improvements to the editor to be more in line with other sites, plus a widget to insert some open source images would be killer.
Everyone on Steemit is posting them, so it shouldn't be that difficult to scrape the common sites and automatically credit the image authors.

20.02.2020 06:32

don't want Steem bought by a China guy

20.02.2020 07:01

While I appreciate the post, and I'm definitely hoping for more open communication, I'd also like to hear specifics.

Here's hoping that this roadmap will finally put some clear answers into place as to what the fuck is happening :^)

20.02.2020 07:58

Once the two teams are able to come to a consensus on the roadmap, that information will be shared with the community.

Two teams on a consensus matter, but how about steem witnesses? Do their voice matters too?

20.02.2020 10:58

Currently, steem and steem dollars are worth more than the Tron token in the crypto market. So, when you talk about a win-win situation, I ask a win-win for who?????
You guys better wake up and smell the stench in the air!!!!!

Posted using Partiko Android

20.02.2020 12:39

20.02.2020 12:54

"Win win" cooperation. interesting choice of words. Chinese foreign ministers love using it for cooperation like putting countries into debt traps to make countries pay back in natural resources and land being used for military bases. Its a double win for China, like "Win Win".

I changed my steemconnect node and my steem interface to reduce my exposure from this change. Currently checking which witnesses are decent. Information of other steem nodes are posted there: @fullnodeupdate

also andrarchy reffered to it as an "Acquisition" rather than a partnership...

20.02.2020 13:02

Let's see where it will head. We only can try and be positive rn

20.02.2020 13:43

Thanks for the update, it was about time.

I will make a short recap of your post (reflecting, obviously, what I understood from it):

  1. Development resources are safe (paid by Tron from now on)
  2. Communities are priority (we already see they're rolled out)
  3. The partnership gives hope.

Not very reassuring, but at least not catastrophic.

Since I don't see any mentions of SMT, I take it that this is not a priority anymore. Probably a new path, involving TRON tokens, will be approached.

I also don't see, as @netuoso stated, nothing about a specific governance commitment, apart from written promises. These might be useful, to a certain extent - I don't dismiss them entirely, on the contrary, thank you for them - but, as both the Steemit Inc. team and the STEEM community know, blocks can't be signed with written promises. It takes a lot more than that, from cryptographic signatures embedded in a specific software, deployed on machines linked in a network, all this supported with time, money and skills. You can also read the last part simply by saying out loud "witnesses".

Without witnesses, there wouldn't have been any strategic partnership. Without content contributors and curators, there wouldn't have been any strategic partnership.

I'm not feeling taken out from the game, but I certainly, as witness, don't feel like I'm a part of it anymore. On the contrary, seems like the entire concept of STEEM witnesses is quite weakened by this "strategic move".

Would appreciate any answer you have to these concerns.

20.02.2020 15:13

Awesome! This is fantastic news. It is so good to see these prominent projects (two of my person favourites by the way) coming together in order to achieve the greater good, especially when it is companies with the significance of these two firms. It never ceases to amaze me that that in the world of blockchain and cryptocurrencies those involved are dedicated to working together to make great projects as opposed to always trying to better one another. I think it is definitely something unique about this industry and it is part of the reason I am such a passionate believer in the future of crypto-assets and the technology that surrounds it as it seems that together the community are so focused on making it works. I would love to see more projects like this in the future. I wonder if anyone else reading this could like to share with me some projects they would like to see work together? I mean, of course, there many already but who else would do you think would make a great team? Let me know :D

20.02.2020 15:27

Hey YOU, please keep as transparent as you can.
Let us feel you are honest.
And please please leak every shit to happen early.
Will you ?

20.02.2020 15:48

I believe this is a great opportunity to both teams, and communities, as well as for all people of the world. Society has taken to social media, and crypto combined with social media adds to the benefits society gains from using social media.

"Shipping communities, improving the user experience on, and streamlining the sign up process are our top priorities as we work with the TRON Team to develop a longer term roadmap."

These are all great to get done, but the most important IMHO is improving user experience, because retention has been poor to date on Steem. Let's focus on getting retention up to industry standard, or better, so that we can enable more people to gain the advantages Steem social media offers society.


20.02.2020 16:13

Thanks for selling out to the biggest clown in the crypto space

20.02.2020 17:01

Interesting times ahead.

20.02.2020 17:02

And what about the community coming to a consensus regarding those potential changes?" unlocker portable

20.02.2020 17:23

20.02.2020 19:08

I made a German translation for an easier information for the German speaking users.

20.02.2020 21:30


20.02.2020 22:03

Justin Sun please fire these witnesses, they are abusing accounts like me!

21.02.2020 23:21

Greate news!
Hope it will be one of the good move to make steemit more stronger!

22.02.2020 04:25

Can anyone please explain me.
Will steemit be using Tron for payments etc or both or it will keep using steem?

22.02.2020 12:29