OCDB goes manual - Detailed


Curation of the "whitelist"

The OCDB whitelist consists of authors that have been curated by OCD in the past 2+ years. It's filled with a lot of great quality authors who were producing original content, were undervalued and missed. Many long gone hopefully to return, many still active but decided not to buy votes (huge respect to those) while others bought votes, maximised their returns whereby some were more farmy than others - we hope you use what you earned through us well and in a #newsteem fashion.

The time has come to remove the bot and place humans behind the votes again. Humans who may be judgemental, biased but in the end will be healthier for the platform than automated bots that may have pressured authors to post more often and degrading their content.

The whitelist will still exist but in the form of following the authors. The votes won't be as consistent but you will know that whoever voted on your post read your content and curated it manually. We are going to focus on quality where votes can range from 1% to 100% and frequency can range from daily to never. We are not going to attempt maximizing curation rewards in any form, the 5 minute rule is no where enough to read and judge a post of the upvote it should receive. What people call curation nowadays has shifted from its real meaning. We expect a lot of front-running accounts to appear and that's okay with us - if they become smarter and adjust their votes depending on the authors we believe provide quality content then even better as in the end the authors will make more rewards.

Authors in the whitelist will not be able to affect the curation in any other way than writing more quality content. Of course quality is subjective and some curators may be biased about certain content - but it's still better than nothing.

Curation of onboarded content creators

At least half of OCDB's voting power (once there are more content creators we have invited) will be used to curate the posts of these content creators. Additionally we will be incentivizing these content creators to invite their fanbase and curate their fans comments on their content creators. This is to incentivize interaction and show the strengths of Steem where both creators and consumers can earn rewards by being active. This will also be a good step in the direction for communities and SMT's.

Our curation here will also vary depending on the activity of the content creators and growing evolvement with Steem. We have seen some onboarded creators absolutely fascinated with the platform and wanting to learn more and spending more and more time on Steem. This will without saying be rewarded more than content creators who will only cross-post and not do anything else over time.

We will be curating crossposting of these content creators as well but not as highly as original Steem content. The voting weights will also vary on the amount of invited content creators currently active. If they are just starting out, we will be careful not to "spoil" them and disincentivize further activity later when the rewards go down which is something that has plagued Steem in the past a lot thus we don't want to make the same mistakes there. We want to highlight all the other advantages of Steem such as immutability, censorship resistence and less power to advertisers having an effect on your earnings.

The fees

The fees will go to curators doing the work by reading and spreading out the rewards over a growing "whitelist/follow-list". These posts will also be checked for plagiarism every now and then and with more eyes on these posts it will be easier to over time catch plagiarisers and readers can report these on our discord in the existing #ocdb-abusereport. Real curation takes time and we feel a 10% fee is appropriate.

The other fees (5%) will go to funding the tipping pool. After a talk with the developers of steemtipper we found out that a big reason to not tip was because many didn't want to get rid of their Steem. Which is understandable considering how similar upvoting is and Steem basically makes tipping obsolete. It is a great tool to raise the attention of Steem on other platforms and get content creators interested to at least create an account on Steem and check it out if they want to claim their tip. The tipping pool and activity will also be overviewed and only a select amount of onboarders will be able to use it.

How the tipping system will work:

Onboarder X finds a great original content post/drawing/video/song/poem on Reddit or Twitter. Onboarder X comments on the content and adds a tip command at the end of the comment with a Steem amount. Afterwards the bot contacts the content creator about how to claim the tip and we will use our claimed accounts to get the creator an account instantly so they can withdraw the Steem that was tipped to them. If they never reply and/or create a Steem account the tip will be returned to the pool. If the Steem in the tipping pool never ends up going anywhere it will be burned.

Additional notes

Onboarding will be a big focus for us as we see it helping the Steem ecosystem in many ways. Depending on the amount of "invite attempts" we have in the current onboarding system we may from time to time vote on the Onboarding Compilation posts of OCD to incentivize the onboarders. This can be seen as a one time referral reward where attempts also get rewarded instead of just the successful onboardings. We will be careful here not to hog the trending page all too often as that would be unfair to other authors and projects. It is something we are working out right now on how to do better in the future with the way we fund our activity and effort.

With the #newsteem changes we would have done well continuing the way we were operating as our whitelist is of curated users and could have been finetuned over time to mitigate any sort of abuse or farming. We know though that this is not proof of brain and with the curve it would not only be unfair to the authors but also to the delegators earning a lot more passive income than curators. OCDB was created to mitigate the abuse of bid bots and the earnings of their owners and delegators. It existed over a year and hopefully did more good than what would have been done with the stake if it had been in just another bid bot. Leaving bid bots profitable and with a lot of stake past HF will not do Steem any good long term and we feel this is the right time to turn around and start to effectively use proof of brain again.

Guidance

As I mentioned above, we will use half of OCDB's VP to reward users we onboard. We want these users to understand how the Steem Proof of Brain posting/voting behaviour works and how to create content that is worth a vote, a resteem and a follow. The good thing about new users is that they can be introduced to #newsteem directly, focusing on bringing up the positive aspects of and on the Steem Ecosystem, making them valuable users for the platform, both as content creators and as possible project members/founders of their own ideas with the upcoming communities and SMT's.

To achieve this, we have set up a discord channel on the OCD server, specifically to keep in touch with these recently onboarded users, where they can ask questions, bounce ideas, network with other new Steemians and receive advice/tips from some of the most experienced OCD members.

By doing this, we aim to coach and then graduate succesful, committed and long term thinking Steemians who will promote Steem on their mainstream social media accounts from a believer and early adopter's point of view, reccommending their favorite Dapp or frontend andpromoting the adoption of our blockchain and coin to their follower base.


Comments 77


To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

13.09.2019 20:22
0

I like this move. Good for Steem in the long run. Now I need to get writing more 😁 and I have just the story to work on.

Good move @ocdb.

13.09.2019 20:25
1

Thanks! Go write! :D

13.09.2019 20:27
0

Awesome! A light of hope! Thanks!

Posted using Partiko iOS

13.09.2019 20:29
1

Great move on your part! All the bid bots should become curation projects.

13.09.2019 20:33
2

Yeah, we had a nice trial run onboarding outsiders on our own and while our onboarding team is growing and we get back to it, the tipping addition will improve the success rate even more!

IIRC out of 18 who responded, 6-7 created an account and started posting and only 2 have stopped (1 contacted us and had a particular random reason for it that I don't want to write down on the chain xD)

13.09.2019 20:57
2

Great results. Care to share aspects of your sales pitch?

Posted using Partiko iOS

13.09.2019 21:02
1

It's all the advantages of Steem without mentioning/focusing on the rewards. :)

13.09.2019 21:52
2

I should've known. What kind of people did you approach?

13.09.2019 21:57
0

Artists mostly, we still haven't made the compilation post of onboarded users but I've resteemed some of their posts. We'll get this kickstarted very soon!

14.09.2019 06:28
0

I participated on a site called Writeon which, sadly has since gone away. Writers posted material and the only reward was that other writers read it and commented. It improved my editing skills. Yes, I would love to profit by writing, but social media sites proves that connecting with others is a driving force for many individuals.

16.10.2019 12:09
1

I really like the idea of a reward pool for onboarding creators. Maybe you could create a proposal for additional funding for it?

13.09.2019 20:40
1

We considered it and will get back to it once it's flowing depending on the need for the funds to use for tipping. For now we're using 5% of the delegators, starting off with the 551 STEEM already existing on @ocdbfund.

13.09.2019 20:54
0

@acidyo your @ocdb downvoted my proposal that is only helping steem get on scatter and your shitty system downvoted it when i never paid for a @booster upvote it was organic and you downvotyed it why? because your system sucks and is killing steem thats why lol you downvoters are bullies

03.10.2019 17:11
0

How does that creator get seen?

02.10.2019 06:35
0

Not quite sure if I understood it all, but I think I get the gist! So keep writing and see what happens!

13.09.2019 20:44
1

Let me know if you have any questions. :)

13.09.2019 20:57
0

The time has come to remove the bot and place humans behind the votes again. Humans who may be judgemental, biased but in the end will be healthier for the platform than automated bots that may have pressured authors to post more often and degrading their content.

100% this! The pressure to try and post daily when hardly any stake was curating forced people who hadn't attracted a certain 'high stake' following to either burn out, or lower time spent. Some people had the energy, or mental fortitude, to write/create elaborate posts with the uncertainty of any type of reasonable attention for their time and effort, but the majority didn't.

Any increase in manual activity from the curation guilds is massive positive news for steem. Gr8 news 👍🙂

Posted using Partiko Android

13.09.2019 21:00
2

$trdo

13.09.2019 21:06
1

Congratulations @a1-shroom-spores, you are successfuly trended the post that shared by @ocd!
@ocd got 6 TRDO & @a1-shroom-spores got 4 TRDO!

"Call TRDO, Your Comment Worth Something!"

To view or trade TRDO go to steem-engine.com
Join TRDO Discord Channel or Join TRDO Web Site

13.09.2019 21:07
0

To be clear, whitelisted accounts sending STEEM/SBD to @ocdb with a URL in the memo line is pinin’ for the fjords?

13.09.2019 21:14
2

The bids are no longer accepted by OCDB :)

13.09.2019 21:16
1

This is great!

Amazing!!

The reality is that the more folk turn up, the more folk available for curation... more eyes looking for content. Especially if they are spread out across time zones.

I love the onboarding idea also.

So one of the goals of the recently established Natural Medicine SCOT-Tribe is to encourage and onboard people interested in this topic from off the chain.

I’m wondering if we could set up some kind of collaboration here, also to have a network between the NM curators and the OCD curators?

What do you think?

Posted using Partiko iOS

13.09.2019 21:31
1

We'll look into collab's once everything is settled down a bit and flowing - we've had a lot of changes recently and still so much to do until we can start thinking about other possibilities. Feel free to stay in touch!

13.09.2019 21:58
1

No worries!!! I’m in the Discord.

Posted using Partiko iOS

13.09.2019 22:04
0

@acidyo That was my first thought as I read this. Stoked it is going to manual curation, stoked re onboarding support, and keen to get involved. @metametheus beat me to it. We are working on onboarding and love idea of a coaching Discord!

15.09.2019 21:09
0

Since the #newsteem started I pasted very clear it on my mind, something is working well and going for a new direction @acidyo and all your efforts is showing everyday..

Also I started posting more often than usually I was doing that..

I understood how important is to care about this ecosystem, and why I stopped my investment using bots.

I continue invest my money getting some Steems one in a while. As a small investors I know we can help a little more.

I’m not in your “whitelist” @ocd but I would like to be in sometime, I think my content is good, it is not perfect but I think worth it to review...

The best for you all and have a great day...!!!

13.09.2019 22:12
1

This post has been included in the latest edition of The Steem News - a compilation of the key news stories on the Steem blockchain.

14.09.2019 00:04
0

This is an amazing initiative @ocd. Onboarding content creators would greatly help the platform, as I see less and less people joining and staying. Maybe the lack of support is the main issue. I have dozen of friends that stopped using Steem altogether as they cannot get the support they need to continue thriving. I also love the idea of coaching the onboard newbies. It is a very helpful way to help them navigate into the Steemit world.

I have a high respect in the amazing initiative that you do @ocd and the rest of OCD Team! 💕

14.09.2019 00:13
1

I've noticed these changes a few days ago and was super impressed. Thanks to all the curators who are putting in the effort to find and reward actual value-adding content. It's honestly really exciting!

14.09.2019 00:19
1

Hey! Haven't seen your name around in some time, welcome back? :)

14.09.2019 02:35
0

Good job!

👍
~Smartsteem Curation Team

14.09.2019 01:04
0

A positive move. I hope that your delegators will continue to support you.

14.09.2019 04:25
1

You mention fees, but you don't really explain where they come from.

People keep saying "manual curation" but they really mean automated curation sniping at 4 minutes. I really love this real manual curation initiative.

14.09.2019 05:10
3

Ah could've made it more clear, it's the curation returns of the users delegating to ocdb!

14.09.2019 06:59
0

Shit! As soon as I upvoted the comment it became ghosted. I thought I had pressed the wrong button :)

15.09.2019 17:12
0

Just coininstant being a troll. He is mad he has been banned almost everywhere.

15.09.2019 17:15
0

Yes, I figured after 5 seconds of complete puzzlement. Not really into all the Steem drama though, so the only one I recognised was firealien.

15.09.2019 17:31
0

Censorship by selfproclaimed do-gooders is still the same practise even if you call it flagging or downvoting as you did recently on my blog without giving any notice or warning...you just lost me in this sectarian community.

27.09.2019 08:56
0

I have upvoted almost all your posts!? You just lost me to be honest!

28.09.2019 09:25
0

Thanks for your support in the past....but as I'm considering to leave this platform you won't have to bother.

30.09.2019 11:49
0

I have no idea what you talk about to be honest. I guess I will no be able to upvote your posts if you leave, but I have never downvoted you or censored you og anything like that. But... Bon voyage!

30.09.2019 13:30
0

...just go to my last blog entry and you will understand.

30.09.2019 13:59
0

Removed my delegation because I want to see how it works first.

I'm experimenting with trails. I already trail ocd and curangel, maybe I will change to ocdb or include it in my rotation as following more than a couple trails makes votes too small on my account.

One thing about trailing the massive curating accounts is my curation reward ends up really small, too. Sometimes to the point of being wasted. It would be cool if there was an account that front runs ocdb by 5 min or so, so we can follow it instead. Same goes for ocd.

14.09.2019 08:36
1

yeah steemauto puts them in a line I think, doesn't randomize the order or anything.

14.09.2019 11:31
0

You should try SteemRewarding, it may give you some rule parameters you are looking for.. Like delayed votes, scaling vote weight, max # of votes per day/week following the trail.. etc etc

15.09.2019 01:13
0

I've recently been experimenting with it. Holger80 is an excellent programmer. For now, I'll stick to trailing OCD and wait to see how OCDB does.

15.09.2019 10:57
0

seems a good move.

14.09.2019 10:37
0

Very much needed!! I think this will definitely help spread good content across the board as opposed to just “content”.

Posted using Partiko iOS

14.09.2019 12:30
0

This only gives content creators more morale to create more. It's a good way to make this online village busy after the #newsteem. Thank you for the support:)

14.09.2019 15:14
0

yep! couldn't agree more!

15.09.2019 11:58
0

Rewarding the onboarding? I like that idea! I also really like manual curation, even though it takes more time. The five-minute rule doesn't make sense here, not to me anyway, but, nobody is happy, whatever you set that clock to.

15.09.2019 11:32
0

A great and admirable move. I think the most important thing right now is to get logic back in the rewards. People need to trust that working on creating content is what will bring them upvotes. I hope all votesellers will convert to manual curation businesses.

The onboarding initiative is sugar on top.

15.09.2019 17:10
0

Hello, how can I sign up for your whitelist?

16.09.2019 14:20
0

Hi @acidyo! I have always been a fan of manual curation and I think this is a great move. Also, I am extremely happy to have been a recent recipient of OCDB manual curation and I am very grateful. It sure has put a "pep in my step." Thank you for all that you do help Steemians and this platform.
When I upvoted this post with 100 % full power, your earnings went down by 17 cents. What happened? If I had known that was going to happen I wouldn't have upvoted. Sorry about that.

17.09.2019 22:38
0

Really???? Why in the world would you DOWNVOTE my last post as large as you did? EVERY single post I have ever made is my own thoughts, a few hundred videos that i took the time to edit for value added viewing. I power up everyday securing our investment in steem for everyone here. My voting CSI on Steemworld is always double digits. I spend multiple votes EVERY SINGLE DAY to welcome first time posters and new Steemians, I have invested my hard earned money in almost every project created on this blockchain since the day it was launched. I have brought on multiple new users, educated many people how to navigate the platform and get Steem Power to work for them, I am an everyday poster and curator with a reputation score that's actually a little higher then yours. EVERYTHING I POST IS MY OWN CONTENT! I think at this point in my almost 3 yrs here on Steemit I at least deserve a courtesy comment if your gonna wack one of my posts letting me know why. Isn't that the way it works at most jobs, clubs, groups, teams? This would be the respectful way. Doing it the way you did is absolute CHICKEN SHIT because it felt more like a hit and run robbery than some constructive criticism about what YOU believe my content should be about.

I don't handle things that way, as a matter of fact I am not even vindictive. I'm not the type of person to down vote your post just because you down voted mine. Steem is hurting bad enough right now that people like you and I should be building bridges here....especially with each other......so its better for everyone.

Just for the record and for all eyes that view this.....THERE IS A MASSIVELY HUGE DIFFERENCE between Steemians like you and me. I purchased all my Steem, and EARNED a little along the way. I used my blood, sweat and tears, AFTER TAX WAGES to buy my stake and my voting rights here. You have a pile of Steem that has been delegated to you. Believe me MY INTEREST in the success of Steem and Steemit, Steem-Engine, Drug Wars, Steem Monsters, Kryptogamer, dlease, minnow booster, steemworld...all of it.....is as high as anyone else here.

17.09.2019 23:35
3

I would like to request permission to re-post this.

24.09.2019 12:54
2

Go for it.

25.09.2019 05:27
1

This whole "fight the bots" thing is beneficial to all authors and creators who post and want actual votes.

I gave up vote bots 11 months ago, and self voting 9 months ago.

And while I haven't posted too too much since then,
what I have posted is original content which for the most part
takes HOURS upon HOURS to create!

Hope to make the whitelist some day as you'll see my content
is original and worthy of a vote! :)

19.09.2019 19:16
0

Why did you unvoted my post? It's totally my recipe

25.09.2019 05:23
2

@ocd who the fuck delegate this bastared , who are downvoting small writers for using bots , why do not witness stop bots page and why witness made it , if you have problem then talk to bot owners , poor people who send bids to earn 1$ even a day now getting loss they are leaving steem , Did hardfork 22 increase the price ? This downvoting increase the steem price ? NO NO at all . @ocdb you are mother fucker bastard only downvote bad content if you have problem with bots why not you talk to other witness to stop them , your fucking curation is for big writers ,? so where small writers should go no one look at their effort and work , Stop misuse of your steem power Who the fuck delegate you , you are ruining the steem . every one is leaving due to downvoting @freedom

please undelegate this bastard it will destroy every thing @freedom @thejohalfiles
Receives From...
Account M Vesting Shares
@freedom 6000.0
@thejohalfiles 1979.723
@realself 494.793
@smooth.witness 280.0
@blocktrades 192.237
@lukestokes 79.992
@lukestokes.mhth 50.067
@mariusfebruary 19.819
@arsenal49 19.795
@ambyr00 15.882
@strawhat 10.156
@sorin.cristescu 10.048
@stationmaster 9.98
@nainaztengra 9.897
@cryptocurator 8.946
@taskmaster4450 8.173
@felander 7.94
@foxxycat 7.524
@lossforwords 7.46
@travelgirl 4.951
@ardina 4.52
@lemouth 4.022
@mariusjuk 4.018
@englishtchrivy 3.997
@taliakerch 3.961
@macoolette 3.961
@anonsteve 3.031
@bkdbkd 2.842
@victorbz 2.778
@coriolis 2.272
@gattino 2.179
@askari 2.053
@diggndeeper.com 2.001
@steemflow 1.996
@preparedwombat 1.979
@joshmania 1.978
@neopch 1.785
@elliotjgardner 1.536
@boyanpro 1.394
@sjennon 1.195
@guchtere 1.188
@justaboutart 1.154
@elteamgordo 1.005
@detlev 1.004
@yo-yo 1.003
@madlenfox 1.0
@newageinv 1.0
@devkant79 0.997
@livinguktaiwan 0.996
@kkarenmp 0.995
@drumoperator 0.994
@wanderwithtwo 0.994
@tfq86 0.993
@verhp11 0.992
@brianoflondon 0.989
@steemmagnet 0.898
@access 0.795
@dronegraphica 0.694
@blewitt 0.693
@barge 0.659
@toyman 0.602
@whack.science 0.598
@mayb 0.597
@cyberspacegod 0.597
@nikkitoo 0.597
@blind-spot 0.595
@for91days 0.594
@janinewiggert 0.57
@igsamuel 0.54
@powerpaul 0.514
@jga 0.509
@rijalaronaceh 0.501
@zoltarian 0.5
@planetauto 0.499
@brizhorticulture 0.497
@costanza 0.497
@joanstewart 0.497
@tapeworm16 0.497
@tijntje 0.497
@priyanarc 0.496
@redheadpei 0.495
@gabrielatravels 0.494
@zeewyr 0.479
@momone 0.429
@lizanomadsoul 0.401
@d00k13 0.399
@beforeyoupack 0.399
@maquemali 0.399
@gamer00 0.399
@bigtom13 0.399
@bengy 0.398
@omra-sky 0.397
@macchiata 0.396
@super-em 0.311
@erikklok 0.3
@ganjafarmer 0.299
@aaronleang 0.297
@dorman 0.26
@peterloupelis 0.258
@hotbit 0.2
@connecteconomy 0.2
@kgakakillerg 0.2
@allyinspirit 0.199
@kimzwarch 0.199
@profitcheck 0.199
@olivia08 0.199
@rayshiuimages 0.199
@bjornb 0.199
@moz333 0.199
@elfman2018 0.199
@modernzorker 0.199
@torico 0.198
@interfecto 0.198
@berien 0.198
@flamo 0.198
@smalltall 0.198
@forykw 0.198
@fieryfootprints 0.198
@general.guy 0.197
@alequandro 0.197
@neoalpha 0.195
@thrasher666 0.177
@insaneworks 0.119
@saracampero 0.1
@riverflows 0.1
@blockchain-kid 0.1
@cpufronz 0.1
@sawyn 0.099
@potplucker 0.099
@alfredmusic 0.099
@kgswallet 0.099
@javiersebastian 0.099
@gracelbm 0.099
@cre47iv3 0.09
@depressedwhale 0.08
@swisswitness 0.079
@emma-hs 0.06
@musicapoetica 0.06
@schubes 0.059
@ellis.marell 0.05
@cryptictruth 0.049
@gargi 0.049
@erikaliberf 0.046
@yanyanbebe 0.04
@zoexantelamv 0.04
@bluebellwalk 0.04
@geekdancing 0.04
@cameravisual 0.04
@worksinsane 0.039

26.09.2019 03:38
2

Good info!

FYI you could downvote this post so it at least shows up.

Do people like being bullied?

I'm surprised only me and 2 other people downvoted this post.

03.10.2019 23:13
2

Hell too the freaking yea!

You have my full support.... thanks to that idiot @chinglee for getting my attention 🤦‍♂️ on a little hiatus you could say 😅

Anyways I stopped boosting a while back and have been playing with trails as others have said... I will be certain when I step back into things your curations will be followed... I tend to follow late 😉

Posted using Partiko iOS

26.09.2019 07:35
0

It would be nice to have an explanation why you flagged me down without any warning!

26.09.2019 08:03
0

@ocd, Do you had a bad idea to downvoting my photography yesterday for only 11steem plus another 11 steem =22 ONLY???

26.09.2019 16:38
0

I came here to learn about your project and delegate some power. I really appreciate the upvote on my 7 ways blockchain platforms are better post :)

01.10.2019 23:48
0

really, this is worth 40

When you have buddies with large Steem Power it is dayum feckin easy to tell others not to buy votes.

Tell me not to buy them but do not rate the content you are telling not to buy.

None of your buddies ever voted for me.
None of them show any interest for the future of the chain only their own accounts

02.10.2019 06:34
0

I think you should remove your vote. @ocd @ocdbens. lol

I think people should downvote these posts. https://goldvoice.club/steem/@ocd

You might also find this post interesting. https://goldvoice.club/steem/@acidyo/why-you-may-be-getting-downvoted

02.10.2019 15:21
3

They dont care man they want steem down to below 1 penny maybe they are trying to drive steem price down to buy more/ eitehr way they dont care about steem when they downvote proposals that only help and get organic @booster upvotes

03.10.2019 17:11
1

Do you even know who "they" are. Like nobody even seems to know who @freedom is even though that account helps run the show. I don't even know who the S.S is that runs the stupid bot.

03.10.2019 22:00
2

This post has received a 15.27 % upvote from @boomerang.

03.10.2019 19:53
0

Very good initiative.
I like to appraise good quality contents.
Nice move. I appreciate it.

What to do? Just only posting quality contents or mention any tag, like #newsteem to participate.

04.10.2019 09:07
0

$trdo

10.10.2019 02:39
0

@ocdb vous downvotez mon post : https://staging.busy.org/@maesha/cap-sur-la-tunisie ???? Il y a-t-il une raison particulière que je devrais connaitre ??? C'est gratuit?! Une erreur?! J'ai passé 30 minutes à l'écrire, c'est pas assez?!

15.10.2019 02:10
0

why should you downvote my post ?
https://goldvoice.club/steem/@cryptonism/ada-chart
have reason or for fun ?

17.10.2019 12:38
0