Dear Community, Let Your Voice Be Heard | Top 20 Witness Communication


let-your-voice-be-heard.jpg

Many times throughout my time here on Steem I have heard about the frustration with the lack of communication between all community members, Steemit inc., and the witnesses. I feel efforts are being made to improve this daily, but I am still hearing a lot of frustration from the community itself. I have tried to do my best to help with this when I can, as have others, but I am not a top witnesses or anything more than a community member myself.. and even when I try to make posts to help explain or communicate, people want something "official".

Recently during a conversation in The Ramble Discord it was brought up that many felt there was not clear communication from the Top Witnesses themselves.

One example that was given was with the upcoming EIP changes now included in HF21. The @Steemitblog put out this post, where they explained the "community proposed changes" and also stated that it would not be something they were focusing on right now -

Right now our focus remains 100% on improving steemit.com, Communities, MIRA, finalizing the Steem Proposal System Hardfork (HF21 or the “SteemDAO”), and preparing to switch to SMTs. We do not have any plans to begin working on any code relating to these economic changes. But we do believe that this is a conversation worth having and one that we would be happy to participate in. Ultimately, the decision of when to begin work on these improvements, and in which hardfork to include them, will be up to the Steem community and the Witnesses they elect to approve Hardforks.

Then after push from witnesses (and stakeholders) the changes were suggested to be included in this hardfork itself. While there was a lot of discussion on these matters over the last few years, nothing was put on chain to explain the recent push to include them. This led to confusion from the community, and in my opinion furthered the "us vs them" and "secret room talks" narrative we have here.

While most witnesses I have spoken to felt the discussion had been had repeatedly, on chain as well, the community went from seeing Steemit inc saying it would NOT be included, to all of a sudden it being part of the deal.

Another simple case of fragmented communication that leads to unneeded frustration, contempt and drama.


Witnesses Are Representatives

The witnesses on Steem are elected officials who produce blocks as well as make decisions on the future of the chain itself. They are elected by stake based votes and to me they should be a representative of the community itself, or at least attempt to be - As they, along with Steemit Inc., are the leadership here.

If individuals are not happy with what they are doing they should first communicate this and then of course vote accordingly.

The issue I am hearing is that many feel that they don't know how to get a message to the witnesses, where to ask questions or to find the information. This is a core issue with steem in my opinion... sometimes it is just hard to find what you are looking for.


Clear Line Of Communication

During the recent discussion about this and how to prevent it going forward, it was suggested that the Top Witnesses elect a "representative" to post and speak on their behalf. That way the information was easy to find and all in one place.

I actually suggested this previously and was told that it was insane to think one person could speak on behalf of 20 independent witnesses. I believe this response is just based on confusion of what is being asked.. as all the community wants is to be kept in the loop and to BE HEARD.. this role would be nothing more than a "reporter" of sorts who relays information, even if the tops aren't saying all the same thing.

There is absolutely no reason why information cannot be gathered and the community informed of why decisions are being made.

When this topic was brought to me again and my response was "You need to go tell them what you want then. Get organized, make a post explaining what you want", I was told -

"I don't know where to post where the witnesses or even Steemit Inc will see it."

I honestly am not sure how to help with this. I have suggested a type of "Community Liaison" role to fill this gap between the Witnesses and or Steemit inc and the community itself and I still believe that doing so would solve so many issues, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

So all I can offer is a place to discuss, here on my blog.

Let Your Voice Be Heard

I don't know how to fix this problem, and can't speak for exactly what it is the community would like to see.. but I can offer a post that will be seen to share your thoughts, your wants, and your questions.

  • Do you have a suggestion for the witnesses to help better their communication with the community?
  • Do you have concerns you want them to know, and haven't been heard elsewhere?
  • Do you just have questions that you can't find the answers to about this hardfork or something else?

Now is the time to make them heard, and I will ensure they are seen. Make a comment below.


  • If there are questions asked that I have seen answered by the witnesses previously, I will try to provide a link.
  • Please let's try to make constructive comments that could actually provide a solution. I understand the frustration and welcome the community explaining their frustrations.. but I also believe that vulgar raging never really leads to much. Let your frustration be known, but let's have mutual respect.
  • I will promote this post to try to get it seen by as many as possible so that the community itself feels like it has a place to communicate.

    My Goal

    My only goal is to help find a solution - by connecting people in one place to have a discussion on how to improve this. I feel much of the frustration and division from the upcoming hardfork (as well as soooo many things in the past) could have been easily avoided (or at least lessened) but open and clear communication.

It's true that not every user cares about this, but there are enough that seem to that I felt the need to try to help in some way. This is what I can do at the moment, it's not much.. but maybe it's a start.

Share your thoughts, suggestions, ideas, and lets work together to move forward in a positive direction. As this blockchain is special due to the community here, and we can accomplish way more by working together then being divided.


Much Love and Steem On,

Justine

Image Source


Comments 87


I would love to see witnesses provide a position post before each hardfork where they explain what they are for, whether or not they want to accept changes and why.

However the issue is the top 20 rarely need the community vote and they know it. They don't answer to the community and they know it.

Also many perceive that they will lose votes (that matter) if they take unpopular positions.

I give you kudos for trying to help, but I'm not sure what would motive them to communicate sense there are no consequences of not communicating.

19.07.2019 20:34
8

This

19.07.2019 23:19
1

I unvoted all witnesses.

I want the SPS, build and delivered in a professional way by blocktrades months ago.

NO EIP, I want the SPS as promised.

Or is this all a distraction to delay the SPS implementation?

19.07.2019 23:35
1

I have also unvoted most of the witnesses

20.07.2019 03:04
0

@drakos opposes EIP and is currently 21...

20.07.2019 03:27
2

I do vote for Drakos. :)

20.07.2019 04:22
0

And together we did it! @drakos has moved into the top twenty!

20.07.2019 05:35
2

@whatsup Where I can unvote the witness I vote in the past? They never said thank you to me, very ungrateful people!!

Thanks,

Have an awesome week!

29.07.2019 17:02
1

image.png
Login to steemit.com, click the hamburger menu.

Scroll to vote for witnesses
image.png

Select your choices or unselect them.

To be fair I don't think witnesses can be expected to spend all day thanking and discussing every vote they get from the community. :)

29.07.2019 17:13
1

Thank you @whatsup

I genuinely appreciate your answer and your valuable time.

I understand some do not have enough time, we live in a busy world with our responsibilities and life in general.

Again thanks much. :)

Have a wonderful day, @whatsup!

30.07.2019 19:10
1

Amen.

19.07.2019 23:54
4

Which is something encouraged by the system itself which would have to be changed to improve this:

1) Problem: Votes that do not expire
Imagine in the real work how much less even politicians would care if people had to actively go to unvote them to remove the vote. They'd just do even less, even less transparent and they would be in power eternally.

Solution: Witness votes expires after 1 year.

This would not only encourage witnesses to be more active, but also punish inactive stakeholders for not participating in the democratic process.

2) Problem: Allowing to vote up to 30 witnesses

This automatically centralizes the chain even more, since most of the stake, as on most blockchains, is distributed to a few whales, it is easy for whales to significantly manipulate the top witnesses. This way, 1-2 big whales can already define all 2 witnesses.

Solution: Allow to vote only up to 10 witnesses.

This would decentralize the election and reduce the immense influence of the biggest whales. Allowing them to only put in a maximum of 10 top witnesses.

3) But now we come to the key point, there would have to be pressure from the stakeholders to change this (unlikely because of point 2) and witnesses would have to approve this (unlikely because of point 1).

20.07.2019 03:43
3

Yep, having 20 witnesses decide things while letting people vote for 30 is a major issue. We need to cut the limit to 10 witness votes like you proposed, or 5 would probably be even better. That would go a long ways in preventing the entire ecosystem basically being controlled by a couple of the largest stake holders like we have now. This is something that must change ASAP if we want this place to survive.

20.07.2019 19:10
4

Vote of 5 or 10 Witnesses is ideal. I think this will work.

21.07.2019 06:08
0

That's an interesting solution that I haven't heard before to reduce the number of witnesses we can vote for.

22.07.2019 00:34
0

That would even be relatively easy to implement (compared to the expiration).

22.07.2019 00:35
0

That is definitely true.
Its like politics 🤣🤣🤣

Posted using Partiko iOS

21.07.2019 00:08
0

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

19.07.2019 20:41
0

I would like to know if there has been any discussion or thought around a more developed “burn steem” program.

There has to be a way to include some type of gamification to incentivize people to burn steem in order to gain something... like SMTS for example as @aggroed has suggested.

With inflation seemingly outpacing growth, I cannot envision STEEM gaining more value with consistent selling pressure such as the programmatic sell by steemit inc. I fully understand the selling is necessary to fund operations at this stage in the game.

but

If a new and improved burn steem program could be implemented this would raise the price of steem and steemit inc would require a smaller quantity of steem selling thus reducing pressure on the price, creating a virtuous circle.

It is very common for publicly traded companies to buy back shares and it seems with all the development and resources here on steem that a system to gamify burning steem to gain something else is completely possible.

Much like you ‘burn’ @steemmonsters to gain DEC (dark energy crystals), I envision some sort of similar system on steem to improve economics and incentivize folks to actually hodl some steem or steem power.

Is there anyone working on the economic fundamentals of steem?

My question Justine, is there any sort of economic advisor consulting or involved on the blockchain level for steemit inc or are they open to anything like that?

From my understanding steemit inc is strictly made up of devs and engineers, but what about the economicsgamification side?

It’s difficult to envision a case for steem bullishness if we are caught in and endless loop of inflation without incentive to hold the coin.

^all to be taken in context from a concerned stakeholder who <3’s this place :)

19.07.2019 20:47
4

i see this burning steem thing few times in last week and i am not sure why investing efforts to find a solution to burn when in reality there is not that much steem around. there is just small group of people using it.

19.07.2019 20:57
0

There are over 350,000,000 STEEM in total supply. The more steem is created the less value each steem has UNLESS growth and demand are greater. Burning steem makes your piece of the pie more valuable.

19.07.2019 21:00
0

look at it this way. defranco has over 800.000 views on youtube every day, and he is just doing 10-15 minutes news. so 800.000 for a whole social platform is really not a lot. that 350,000,000 on 800.000 people is less than 450 steem each. not sure but i think you are not planing to share your steem with new people.
so my view is not that there is not enough steem, there is not enough people to want to own it.
so if we need to make an effort to change something, i would like to we make effort to get 1.000.000 people on steem and have a place where something is happening for the normies than make an effort to think how to burn steem.
that is only my opinion, and i could be horribly wrong.

19.07.2019 21:11
0

I agree. I would love for there to be 1,000,000 more people on steem.

Until that happens, people are focused on the price of the token unfortunately. We know this because I can tell you that I know dozens of former Steemians that have left because they don’t feel as incentivized as when steem was $4 or even $1.

Not saying that it makes sense to stick around just for that reason, but thats just what happens.

But if we can get a million more people on steem, im all for it!

19.07.2019 21:17
0

Back in the days there were a way to promote your posts by bruning STEEM (it still works, that's PROMOTED tab used for) I even promoted my last post that way. Unfortunately, in the bid bot era, it is more profitable to pay for bots to go to the top of TRENDING page, instead of burning STEEM to go to the top of PROMOTED page (IIRC it costed me $0.13 to do that).

When it comes to gamification... ugh, there's a lot to win using it properly (FYI: @arcange & @surfermarly) . Gamification is a frontend thing, and I'm proficient in the opposite side of stack, so unfortunately I'm unable to contribute (other than complaining about lack of it), but even basic solutions like @steemitboard is making a difference (famous "I don't want to be a deadfish anymore").

19.07.2019 21:36
4

Great points. I even forgot about the promoted tab but I do remember using it a few times and burning a bit of steem. That shows that it totally can be done. Thanks for the reminder!

There also used to be a burn steem post that happened on a regular basis. Those are the right ideas imo :)

19.07.2019 21:39
0

My question Justine, is there any sort of economic advisor consulting or involved on the blockchain level for steemit inc or are they open to anything like that?

I am not aware of an economic advisor, but I can ask around to see if this is something that has been discussed at all. 🙂

Great questions btw, thanks for taking part!

20.07.2019 04:11
1

100$ has been spent to promote this content using Steemium.
Learn more here!

19.07.2019 20:57
0

I would love to know a simple thing. Why are those communications happening on discord and not in the steemit platform itself?

What is missing on steemit that make everyone feel more inclined to use other platforms like discord to engage with the community and have great talks?

19.07.2019 21:25
1

I agree, and I think EIP pushes us in the wrong direction. I have found that I have to be on discord, but it shouldn't be that way. I think there's this weird fear of "cluttering" the blockchain, and that we'll be punished for writing mediocre comments. But that's silly. Short comments are not spam. Spam is spam and the worst purveyors are bots.

19.07.2019 23:23
3

You are absolutely right. With all those fears of 'clutter' the blockchain, the only visible result is that more and more people tend to use other platforms like discord and important information and engagement is lost in here...

How can anyone defend the growth and make a platform stronger with the ultimate vision to attract more users and keep them engaged if the majority use another platform to communicate and discuss all this and other topics?

That don't make any sense. I really hope this change and the devs of this platform start to think more about the best experience possible they can offer and not get stuck on 'how to save the blockchain by implementing minor fixes'.

Sometimes you have to push something a bit harder without fear in order to see the 'big results'. No one needs to invent the wheel at this point... if people like discord and want some of there functionality here in order to spend more time on the platform focus on building that...and not promoting rewards for downvotes for example.

20.07.2019 00:16
0

The EIP has absolutely nothing to do with “cluttering” the chain or attempting to prevent comments. Can’t you elaborate on what you mean a bit?

20.07.2019 04:10
0

I'd be happy to elaborate.

When I said the EIP makes it worse, I mean the incentive to have these conversations will be even lower, as comments rarely receive 16 steem upvotes, so even if your every comment is read and appreciated by the writer you're communicating with, the new curve will reduce the value of their appreciation, which is enough of a feel bad that I'd expect no one to really vote for comments, which is a pity.

The goal of the EIP may not explicitly state that it intends to de-clutter the chain, but that rewards curve is meant to force accounts to group their behavior together. Which means small positive contributions will receive even less, which means no one looking to maximize their return will engage in one-on-one conversations on-chain. It also means outliers, people who don't follow or lead the pack, will give less value proportionate to their SP. It'd be nice to avoid a system that discourages outside-the-box thinking. Ah, well.

And also, that curve IS meant to de-clutter the chain. I mean, it's talked about as keeping them from taking rewards, but the effect is the same. And for a new user, or even an old user, this concept of fighting spam is hard to disconnect from the idea that my $0 comments are the spam they're talking about.

20.07.2019 04:44
2

that was the first thing i was moaning about when i read about the changes. not be able to vote for people that follow my content and engage.

20.07.2019 13:55
0

Keep moaning! I feel like their using a broad range of herbicide to kill the pesky weeds without realizing they'll also kill the daisies. Or they realize and they don't care about daisies. Or they realize, but think the pigweed is a big enough problem that the daisies are acceptable collateral damage. Regardless, I'm yelling, "I care about daisies! Don't kill the daisies! Daisies are my favorite! I think a lot of people love daisies!"

20.07.2019 14:08
1

i did for a while, commented, made posts, and all i got is 2-3 responses that voting will change, small accounts will get more because no autovotes and bot votes and downvotes of those autovotes, and bigger steem price, that i am stupid for not seeing that, and that was it. so now i just want them to do it as soon as possible so we can move on.
i never cared about ROI on my votes, voted what i feel i should and when i get to it, so maybe after it i will only vote 100% on comments just to skip dust vote on them. (if even that will be possible)

20.07.2019 14:49
1

Well the people pretending to know all the positive impacts of this change are either delusional or lying. I don't pretend to be sure, but I am sure that it's not a magic bullet, and I'm furthermore sure they can't know. There's no way to test it, I keep being told, so I don't know where they get their confidence from. This isn't physics, it's frontier economics. Behavior is hard to predict.

20.07.2019 16:22
1

Dust vote will be affected, I think many have discussed this. I believe there is a discussion being had about lowering the dust vote so the impact would not be so great. But again, I’ve not seen anyone discuss this on chain.. so I guess it’s back to the point of this post... tell them what you want to see.

20.07.2019 18:49
0

i seen it but i did not get what they plan to do with it. the dust vote is more as a joke, because with this prices even now it is hard to go over it. curve change will eliminate voting on comments for people that don't have over 5000 - 10000SP even if they don't care about ROI.

20.07.2019 19:00
0

It won’t really eliminate voting on comments, it just means it will take more of a consensus (or more people) voting on a comment to push it over the dust range. And as I said, if the dust is lowered than it will not take an account over 4K SP to do so on their own.

If the dust is to be lowered, then this will help the issue you are discussing. I’ve not seen anything official about it though, so again... witness communications.

20.07.2019 19:06
0

Even if it doesn't go below the dust range, the value would still be reduced significantly (I think?... This is something I need answered. How severe is the low end of the curve? If I'm the only voter on a comment at $0.05, will that, in post-EIP, be $0.04 or $0.001?)

20.07.2019 21:15
1

You keep saying this will stop comments, but are you implying that the only reason people interact through comments on this chain is for upvotes? As my comments are very rarely upvoted and I still do so quite often.

I’m just trying to figure out where you are coming from as $0 comments have nothing to do with the curve and it’s not designed to prevent them.

So are you looking for another way to “like” comments without wasting your VP? (As you mentioned somewhere here). Are you worried about how it affects the dust vote? Or are you concerned with how the curve will initially decrease rewards on low rewarded posts? Or none of the above?

The only people who may stop commenting are those who are doing spam comments only to self upvote it and farm rewards... other than that I’m very confused how you feel these changes will stop comments.

Your, mine and everyone else’s $0 comments are NOT the spam anyone is talking about.

20.07.2019 18:48
0

for example most of my posts (be it photography, sports, steem...) have 2-3 comments, and a lot of the times one of them is steem ua bot. now to show that i appreciate the effort i do upvote comments as to give my 2 cents back.
now with new curve my 2700SP vote that is now around 35 cents (when WP at 100%), will be even lower. so voting on comments, and also voting on people that don't get votes will not only get no ROI, it will just be useless for me and for the that one that i voted for.

20.07.2019 19:09
1

Yes, so you are referring to the dust vote and how it will be affected (increased) after the change. Rewarding comments for small amounts and going over the dust will be harder to achieve on your own. That would mean someone else has to also upvote the same comment to push it over the dust.

What I’m trying to say is there is a discussion to lower the dust so this isn’t an issue.

Of course with falling prices votes are worth less, and that’s just how this works. Focusing on what will increase the price should be everyone’s focus, and part of that is making this place appealing to investors.. which I believe is the goal in these changes.

I’ll ask around more about the decrease in dust threshold after the HF and see if I can get more information.

The point I was trying to make above though, is whether a comment is voted or not has nothing to do with if a comment can be made.
So if we can’t reward comments, maybe we could just comment back, engage and have a conversation. I also think emojis would be great but I guess we aren’t there yet😄

20.07.2019 19:13
0

non of my comments were ever written with upvote in mind, i am just saying it is a nice option to give something back to people that engage on your posts (with new curve that will be impossible)
another example why a lot will suffer in the new system. i am week for week in 200 best curators on photography tag. if i am in best curators, you can imagine how much is distributed to the tag.
now why would i in the new system (i had no reason in the old one eather), vote for small acc that has few votes and now even penalised by the curve, so i get less and that small acc get less.

as i said, my mentioning of dust vote is more of a joke for a comparison of power of my vote and what i expect after the changes.

and as i said many times and not listening to myself, now i just want it to be implemented and we get over with it. maybe witnesses could tell us how the testing is going, and when should we expect HF. because november is near and steemit said that until steemfest we will have communities or SMT's (forgot which one was it). and i am kinda sure we will not have two HF in 3 months.

20.07.2019 19:38
0

Yes I understand that you want to reward those who comment on your posts and if the dust is increased, then most likely you won’t be able to do so - I have the same concern.

If the dust threshold is decreased though, this may not be something we have to worry about, we will have to see.

As far as date, I believe they are shooting for mid August. Currently they are all focused on testing to ensure the fork goes smoothly.

21.07.2019 01:10
0

Hey there!
I don't think they're talking about dust. They're talking about the rewards curve. The new rewards curve means that posts that have rshares of upvotes significantly below about 16 Steem, will be worth even less than they would be in our current linear curve environment. OP, can you confirm?

21.07.2019 14:32
1

He repeatedly said the comments people make on his posts, and wanting to reward them. Which would mean the dust vote threshold, as in that situation he may be the only person voting these comments.

Yes the curve is another aspect, as you mentioned in a previous comment, and I am working to get the information to answer the specifics on that. As I know I’ve seen the data previously.

21.07.2019 17:45
0

I read what he said and your responses. I don't know why you think it's about the dust threshold. I have the same issue with EIP. My concern is that a 5 penny vote will be worth a tiny fraction of that on its own. If the dust threshold wipes away the remainder, well, that's a extra bummer, but the big problem is the initial reduction of value. I think he's been pretty clear that that's what he's saying, too.

21.07.2019 19:39
1

beware that person you are talking to is actually part of dirty team that is rigging entire platform in order to enrich themselves

just3.png

22.07.2019 17:50
2

This one: Or are you concerned with how the curve will initially decrease rewards on low rewarded posts?

Here is one use case that the new curve renders less functional, but there are many more:
I run Punday Monday every week. People write puns on a given topic, and I reward the successful puns with my vote. It's a tiny bit of positive on the chain, that takes a tiny bit of effort, and that is rewarded with a tiny bit of money.

Will they all stop now? I dunno. I think they enjoy it enough and have learned how to do it, so they might keep going. But I also think they started because of the promise of a little change in their pockets. That's the promise of Steem.

So, my understanding of the purpose of the platform is: it's a social media platform and a blogging platform where user likes have financial rewards. Maybe it is other things, too, but that seems integral to the premise.

The whole point of this change is to change behavior, so I'm not sure why you don't think the rewards curve change might even impact desirable commenting behavior.

The "where user likes have financial rewards" part is currently true! Yippee! My largest concern for EIP, is that the plan forgets or ignores the needs of the average user, who isn't trying to maximize returns, but who is rather trying to use the platform as advertised.

20.07.2019 20:08
2

Who says short comments are spam?

20.07.2019 08:45
2

:)

20.07.2019 09:37
0

Not I.

20.07.2019 13:07
0

Wasn't me either.

20.07.2019 13:18
0

Must've been a ghost.

20.07.2019 13:23
0

Do you know who I worry about most? @gentlebot

I think @ionlysaymeep will thrive in any environment, though.

20.07.2019 13:27
0

I had a fairly long conversation with Meep awhile back. Damn thing always wants the last word.

20.07.2019 13:33
0

Oh? I think I offended meep. I keep talking, but they ghost me.

20.07.2019 13:42
0

Because it is difficult to have a “chat like” discussion on chain sometimes. Also, discord allows radio style talk shows, so much of the conversation happens there.

There are many posts made on chain to have these discussions, unfortunately sometimes people don’t know they are happening or how to find them. Having one account where maybe a month or bi weekly “discussion” post is made might be a solution, I’m not sure if that would be helpful or not.

I do think it’s important to have the information on chain as well though. And look forward to a day when discord isn’t needed at all 🙂

20.07.2019 04:09
0

Because it is difficult to have a “chat like” discussion on chain sometimes.

If the chain can't be used to create that experience for its limitations, the solution can be the use of another technology to deliver that like the matrix protocol. If everyone wants and push for that they would do it. A great example of that is the next version of busy that already detected that problem and are building their next platform with that in mind as well.

Captura de ecrã 2019-07-20, às 13.41.08.png

I will leave here the link for you and others to check out @justineh: https://hello.busy.org/

So you can easily see that with the right priorities and will in mind it's possible to bring such great experience on the same platform and not split on different places. For now, I think you will not have a radio and talk shows, but you will have individual and group chats so that engagement can happen on the same service.

There are many posts made on chain to have these discussions, unfortunately sometimes people don’t know they are happening or how to find them. Having one account where maybe a month or bi weekly “discussion” post is made might be a solution, I’m not sure if that would be helpful or not.

That could be a solution, have a tab for that with also notifications built-in so that each person can toggle the notifications and 'discussion' they want to follow. Would be like subscribe to newsletters on the e-mail. That way you are always up-to-date.

20.07.2019 12:54
1

Yep, all great ideas.. but someone has to actually communicate and write these posts. 🙂

20.07.2019 18:51
0

Maybe they just can create audio shows where they reply to every single question, or at least most of them. When we have shows with witnesses usually they don't reply to all questions. A lot of steemians stay ignored. I was listening in so many shows, asking questions, seeing how others ask them, but mostly everybody talk about his thing and what they are doing. The feedback is really important, witness should be in touch with people.

Also, I would like to see who are voting on witnesses. It was never discussed anywere I guess, but if we see everything happening on the blockchain, how we can see who are choosing those witnesses ? Is there a tool for that ?

I mean maybe those who are choosing witnesses, are not active anymore, are they counted as votes ? It's really interesting to see the active steemians who vote on particular witness.

19.07.2019 22:17
0

You can see who a user is voting for on steemd. Not sure if you can see which users are voting for a particular witness, but I've seen posts that dive in. I believe @pumpkin is the deciding vote for all top twenty witnesses.

19.07.2019 23:26
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While the pumpkin vote definitely makes a huge difference, you can see that not everyone in the Top 20 receives a vote from them.

E7A76039-B8AA-4BAA-A182-F9F245EABBAA.jpeg

20.07.2019 04:06
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There is a tool by @drakos that lists who is voting for a specific witness. I thought there used to be a link from the steemd witness page. I’ll find out if it’s still active and link it here if it is.

Voting do not expire, so yes votes from accounts that are no longer active are still counted. Decaying votes is a topic that is discussed frequently, but many have expressed concerns with doing so.

I do know there are many witness forums around discord, but maybe it would be beneficial to do a AMA on chain or possibly an written interview with some to get specific questions answered.

Did you have specific questions in mind?

20.07.2019 04:04
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Why we can't find monthly reposrts about active steemians choosing the recent witnesses ? It will be good if each witness write about that. Also, if we are voting on those 30 witnesses because we believe they are doing something good, why it's so hard to reach them all. Maybe each witness should talk to those who are voting for him ? Maybe each witness should show his appreciation to those who are voting on him. I'm voting on all those 30 and I've been here for more than 2 years, but the only once that always open to discussion is @gtg and @timcliff. They all reply me in steem.chat if I have a particular question.

But the questions I have or people have are formed during those conferences. Now all my questions are answered, but during the shows in MSP Wave, I would like to see most of questions of the audiance answered. If simple minnows can't talk by voice or they are not that confident to talk, they write and I've seen a lot of interesting questions written. I usually read more than listen.

Anyway, I don't want to create any misunderstood and I'm just sharing my opinion, hoping for all the best for steem community !

20.07.2019 05:20
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@steemium purchased a 54.85% vote from @promobot on this post.

*If you disagree with the reward or content of this post you can purchase a reversal of this vote by using our curation interface http://promovotes.com

19.07.2019 22:28
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Great!
I'd like three things:

  1. I've changed my votes to represent my perspective as best as I can, but there seems to be intentional obfuscation when it comes to witness opinions on relevant issues. I'd like to see an "official" post, from you, perhaps, after talking to each of the top thirty witnesses (because we need alternatives if we're not going to vote for a top twenty witness) on those topics.
  2. I'd like real information about the expected impact on author and curation rewards of EIP. When asking people like @markymark, I've only gotten answers that it can't be answered, because the intention of EIP is to change behavior, so it'll be different because behavior changes. But that shouldn't be how we make big changes. We should collect as much data as possible, and at least provide a few scenarios to compare. I propose that we see an analysis that assumes behavior will not change. The biggest impact, I think, will be the rewards curve but I don't really know. Will a post that gets 2 steem in today's environment, author and curator rewards combined, get 0.5 based on that number of rshares? Will it get 1.5? Will it get 0.05? I have not seen this analysis.
  3. I think most humans using Steem are having a positive impact on the Steem environment. There are a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, and they have a lot of accounts. I think EIP misses their needs pretty dramatically. If EIP is going to go through as proposed, something needs to be done to protect them. There needs to be a way to upvote a comment you like that isn't IMPORTANT you just want to show your approval and give it a few pennies without "wasting" your VP because you're not voting on a viral meme. I propose a whitelist of users who will find their little votes matched by 🐋 votes up to its expected value in pre-EIP. That way, the positive, human behavior won't disappear.

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19.07.2019 23:16
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I could definitely do my best to get a witness questionnaire of sorts done possibly.

What specific questions (besides those you listed) would you think would be beneficial to be included?

20.07.2019 04:19
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Here are a few questions that I'd like answered, and I'll include a few that I don't care about the answers to, but that some people might like to see:

  1. What are your positions on the three pillars of EIP?
  2. What are the problems that your solutions are solving on Steemit and how are they solving them? Please be specific and provide examples.
  3. What is your position on bidbots?
  4. How do you think the target user on Steemit behaves, include voting, posting, delegation, powering-up behaviors and any other behaviors you'd hope, upon mass adoption, we'd see from the "average" user.
  5. What is your larger vision of Steem? Why is it worth it to try to make this work?
  6. Is Steem a social media platform? Is it a blogging platform? It is a development platform? I know it's all three, but what do you think HF21 is pushing it away from or towards, and is that what you want?
  7. If you think Steem is being destroyed, who do you think is destroying it, and why? If you think it'll survive anything, who are its greatest champions, or does it need no champions?
  8. If you were new to Steem, what would you do?
20.07.2019 05:01
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Number 2 is a question I’ve had myself. I did some sample calculations a few days ago, using visual inspection to approximate values for the new reward curve and the median payout from these two graphs:

The new reward curve, depicted in red, from @steemitblog's post

Median payout per post, from @arcange's 7/19 stats post

This includes a reduction of the Content portion of the inflation pool from 75% to 65%, which lowers it to 87% of what it is now, the change in the reward curve, and reward distribution between authors and curators.

Median Payout

According to the stats from 7/19, the median payout has recently been between 0.15 and 0.2 SBD, so I called it 0.175 SBD. At an internal median price of ~0.24 that gives 0.729 in STEEM.

Current Payout 0.729
pool reduction -13% -0.097
curve change -35% -0.221
0.411

The total payout on the median post goes down to 56% of what it is now.

Author Curators
Current 0.547 0.182
After EIP 0.205 0.205
Change -62% +13%

Authors of posts by the median will earn 38% of what they would today while the people who vote for them will earn 113% of what they once did.

What Happens to a Haejin Payout

Posts paying out over 16 STEEM (~4 STU today? I'm not sure how to calculate STU exactly and translate this into the payouts listed on most frontends) will pay out more. I took a specific example from a predictable earner to see what that looks like. This post had a total payout of ~87.970 STEEM, well over the 16 STEEM line.

Current Payout 87.970
pool reduction -13% -11.729
curve change +13% +9.911
86.152

The total payout here drops down to 98% of what it was.

Author Curators
Current 65.978 21.933
After EIP 43.076 43.076
Change -35% +96%

He (?) takes a hit and only brings in 65% of the author rewards while those who curate his posts double their rewards. Since this is a large self-voting example, a portion of that curation goes back to haejin's accounts.

For the same post haejin, ranchorelaxo, and starjuno together earned 18.701 SP in curation rewards, 85% of the curation for that post. Assuming the same distribution of rewards to curators we get this:

Author Self Curation Author Total Other Curators
Current 65.978 18.701 84.679 3.292
After EIP 43.076 36.629 79.705 6.447
Change -6% +96%

So haejin takes a 6% hit on his draw from the rewards pool and it's now doubly advantageous to front-run his self-votes.

For a self-voter of a much lower amount, like the median payout, their self-curation would bring in a small boost. Assuming they also brought in 85% of their curation rewards, instead of earning only 38% of today’s author rewards they would earn 54% of today's rewards in total.

Is this correct?

I dunno. This is my understanding of the various changes to reward calculations. I'm not sure why the curve is shown with the payout in STEEM, since the payout is calculated in Rshares, or how any changes to the price have shifted it since it was posted.

24.07.2019 21:45
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Thank you for this, and it seems like the conclusions are very relevant and make me wonder why there will be any positive behavior changes at all.

25.07.2019 01:41
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No idea. I guess they're pinning that on the downvotes? I mean, good luck with that...

25.07.2019 12:33
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Great post!!!

Nothing more to add, as to demand the implementation of the SPS.

No EIP, the SPS is what is needed badly.

And let them create a proposal in the SPS for the EIP changes.

19.07.2019 23:36
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Thank you Justine for putting this out! This is indeed a problem we need to solve. I do have an idea tho.

The devs could implement a Witness tab where the current witnesses are displayed. On this tab they can post about the current things and what's going on with this Blockchain. They also could add polls and other useful things to ask the community things about how we should progress with this chain.

20.07.2019 04:09
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It is not in the interest of blockchain decentralization to have coordinated communication away from steem blockchain itself. Therefore, any communication among witnesses should happen on blockchain.

20.07.2019 08:34
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It would actually be a security risk for all communication between the witnesses to happen on the blockchain, and that’s why it’s not common place on any blockchain.

Private discussions are needed. The question is more how would the community like them to better communicate about the decisions being made and why.

20.07.2019 14:56
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Use key encrypted mode to carry on private discussions. May be steem team can add this small feature

27.07.2019 05:39
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Great post

20.07.2019 14:59
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20.07.2019 16:10
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I wish our voices could all be heard!

21.07.2019 00:39
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Hello, I'm new on Steem
What is a witness?
Can anyone be a witness? Thanks

21.07.2019 10:42
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Yes anyone can be a witness, you set up a server and votes from stakeholders decide your ranking. Here is some information that may help - https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Steem_Witness

21.07.2019 18:56
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why are you lyin' so much ?

21.07.2019 19:17
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"I don't know where to post where the witnesses or even Steemit Inc will see it."

Then people need to know the name of this witness so they can unvote the individual. If Steemit can pin a winner from "Open Mike" and PIN other post to the top of the feed, I have no doubt that @andrarchy would have any objection at all to pinning a progress report to the top of the feed page.

In fact you should ask @andrarchy to pin this post to the top, I do not often check the trending page but felt like it today.

HF21 has been in the hands of the witness for one month, no progress report, no clues as to what is working, what is not working, or even what their thoughts are on it at all.

21.07.2019 18:51
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I have heard there is discussion about having the POCKET token (Steemit’s historic first token) balance show up in your Steem wallet. Where are we at with that?

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23.07.2019 00:16
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