Filling the Bid Bot Hole

The chances of getting negative curation, aka the almighty downvote, for using Bid Bots is very high post-HF21. Organic curation is replacing the artificial botted user experience.

Keep your posts bid bot free to avoid negating downvotes.

Yeah it's real shitty to write this post. I support organic curation and content discovery. I also support everyone's right to decide on whatever the fuck they want to do on a decentralized platfrom as long as they're not screwing over anyone else.

Does bid bot use screw other people over? In part, yes. It draws rewards from the communal reward pool. In part, no, as bid bot owners have to maintain their investments powered up. It's a balance. You got to look at both sides. Lots of bid botted crap got published over the last few years. A lot of it was pure filth that wouldn't earn a penny otherwise. Can be said that it's that history of filth that's fueling the current war on bid bots and bid bot users.

Bid bot use kills the sense of authenticity in post valuation. It leads to a lot of reward disagreement. You figure you deserve the rewards and you obviously do, because it's you and you know how hard you worked (or didn't work) to get that post out. Others see inflated values. That's one take. To look at it from the other side, who's to say that non-botted posts have a deserved value? The guy with the $50 in real user upvotes might just be best buds with the right people. Who the hell's to know. It's a fucking nightmare sorting this shit out.

I'm not a bot user myself. I'm such a shit bot user that the one time I had to use one for a promotion I had to ask my buddy to figure it out for me. Using a bid bot isn't easy. It's easier to run one, which I helped do for a time. It's fun to build them that much I can attest to. I don't know what role, if any, bid bots will have in 2020. They may all die out. They may evolve.

For now, those who use them got a real problem and that problem is they're putting a target on their back. It's seen as artificial reward manipulation. I don't want to tell anyone what to do. Everyone has the right to self-determination. I'll be straight up here. I joined back when we saw dogshit on Trending at 2k, mostly thanks to certain whale accounts. A bid botted $10 post isn't pulling that trigger for me. Not everyone has that image of the old 2016 Trending burned into their mind. We got a new set of users and makers out here now and the ecosystem took a drastic shift.

So I'm not going to tell you what to do. But I'm going to tell you what I figure I'd do and what I'd do right now is stay the fuck away from bid bots and focus on organic curation. Get to know some groups. Form one. Work towards increasing content discovery. What's the point of writing if no one's seeing it? Bots aren't the answer. No one reads bid botted posts; you just feel better about doing all that damn work when you see some numbers on the post, never mind you paid for those numbers.


When I see a hole in the drywall I see a solution. The solution is to patch the hole. There's no point in crying over this hole. It'll be a hole forever if you don't patch it up. Best is to take all that reliance on bid bots, throw it out, and readjust. Figure out how to fill that hole together.

I got the idea for the @dline project by looking at curation groups. The idea for there to be a retention project without anyone knowing it exists. Users aren't supposed to know they got dlined. They get their votes and comments and never know how it happened. It's a different but thankless approach. But that's the thing here, we need more of these approaches. Not going to tell you that I thought of something brilliant. Going to tell you that you can think of something brilliant.

So that's your challenge right here: think of something brilliant. Don't give up. You built up too many bridges to give up. Just think and ask for help if you need it. Got some amazing venture or post you worked your ass off for? Tell me. Anyone can message me. If I miss it just message again. I take messages from everyone. I'll never downvote you for sending me a link or for taking up my time. Speak up, ask, think forward and fix that hole.

10% of the rewards from this post go to the burn barrel @null, rest will go towards the next participaction challenge

Comments 58

Yep. Just like in nature. Adaptation is the key to survival.

10.10.2019 04:44

So let's figure something out.

10.10.2019 04:53

So very true @dfinney, Since the beginning here I always tried to find like minded people.
That’s how I survived and grew.

I believe that is how we will all adapt now by supporting each other!😊
Cheers !!!


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10.10.2019 21:12

Does bid bot use screw other people over?

Something often overlooked is the actual content producer's perspective and the fact those bots and members who use them push all the other work aside, down, and out of sight. It's much like downvoting. Same results if upvoting means that post moves up the trending or hot page and downvoting means that post moves down the ranks.

So I'd produce 'art' and use the art tag. People would use the 'art' tag with bidbots. My work vanished. Theirs sat at the top... but nobody cared about it. When we had a view counter, I'd have hundreds of views some days from my following, but rarely see a new face. Meanwhile the posts with fake rewards had little to no views, no comments, nothing.

I wasn't going to pay a toll to the people who made the mess, just to get out of the mess. No thanks.

There was no chance to earn visibility. Couldn't even compete for it. It was out of reach. People had to leave because not only were the bidbotted posts sitting all high and mighty not receiving views, votes or comments. It was like working in front of an empty venue for majority of the rest.

There was no balance. The entire system was shot to shit. More people were paid to look away and making more doing that than the minority who chose to get paid to look.

everyone's right to decide on whatever the fuck they want to do on a decentralized platfrom as long as they're not screwing over anyone else.

"As long as they're not screwing over anyone else." Exactly.

10.10.2019 04:59

Getting a comment from you is like being noticed by senpai after years.

Never thought about bid bot use in that perspective. Probably because I'm not a content producer these days. That's a great point though. Haven't seen anyone put it like that. The fact that bid bot posts just push everything down and don't allow any chance for fair play really warped content discovery. It's changing now. I know you're one of the creators who finally got more visibility now that HF21 hit, so that means we're actually doing something right for a change.

10.10.2019 05:11

I was that and things similar for two years. Hundreds of post published in that time. Each one, I knew, before hitting that post button... I'd be going nowhere. I wrote posts joking about it. I wrote posts pointing out the problem. I spoke to vote sellers and got called names! LOL!

So now there's a new problem. Yes, I've finally gained some visibility and when I feel uncomfortable with it people reassure me I've earned it and deserve it, so that's cool. I don't want to be pulling a CHB out there, if you know what I mean.

The new problem though is the fact this top slot real estate needs to gain consumer trust. For years many knew the trending and hot pages were rigged and full of crap, so many refused to look. They need to once again feel comfortable going there to see what's up. If that consumer trust isn't there, then the benefits of being there aren't as beneficial as they are supposed to be. You'll notice I get a lot of engagement. I know most of those people. I'm rarely seeing a new face and I won't be using tricks and gimmicks like "Everyone who leaves a comment gets a vote" posts either. I want that shit to be as organic as it can get.

Things are improving though. Quite a bit. I pay close attention. Even when I scroll through my own feed, I'm seeing money beside posts. Before, guess what? There wasn't much money there! I only followed accounts that didn't buy votes. Now those accounts are gaining traction again. That's a big deal.

I hope things get even better for everyone.

10.10.2019 05:22

I'm not a fan of the word "deserves" when used on Steem. Everyone uses it and I get how uncomfortable it feels. I really don't like hearing it connection to witness voting (that's where it normally comes up).

I don't think there was ever any consumer trust in Trending. In my recollection we went from what I can only describe as dogshit filth in Trending when Steemit launched and started gaining momentum. 15k to some random YouTube girl. 10k to Berwick. Smoothies. It cost us. It made us look superficial and no serious content producer would touch us. Then we had crap like Sweetssssj travel posturing and other scammers/vote traders. Then we had all the bid bot crap, most of it projects ripped off from OS and I don't even know what because who'd read that. That trust never existed but now there's a chance to start getting it established. Agreed.

10.10.2019 05:35

It's not deserves as in entitled. They're just trying to tell me it's okay and not offending anyone. Any measure of 'success' here is often scrutinized. Many don't believe you if you say you never made any deals behind the scenes for votes. Some don't believe hard work matters. Some think organic is all bullshit. It's not what you do, it's always something else. So that can be stressful.

What you said is the 'success' people are used to seeing. There was always something shady about it so now people have trust issues. So yes, hopefully now things will get better with this organic push. People are actually trying and much of the riffraff can now be dealt with. I truly hope things improve. I've seen it all. It's about time everyone learn and figure this mess out, do it right, or at least as best as they can.

10.10.2019 05:47

Throughout the three and a half years I have spent on the Steem Blockchain there have been many people who have enthralled and amazed me. When I was young (which was a very long time ago) I read physical books (a dying art in 2019) including pretty much everything Enid Blyton wrote, as I got older all Stephen Kings works and also Isaac Asimov. Why this is relevant is because as writers they engaged me, I had to read more. And on the Steem Blockchain there are a few select authors who engage me just as much, you @nonameslefttouse are one of those people who write in such an engaging manner it is truly amazing, writing can take many forms but when it is most incredible is when you can write with superb clarity - with no anger or aggression. It is an incredible talent, to debate without needing to try and belittle or force impression on people. There are a few on the the Steem Blockchain I know do this so well like you - who can make a point and hold and audience without any anger or aggression. During my early period on here I know a few accounts that could write in such a perfect way, most have been and gone @dreemsteem was amazing but sadly HF21 drove away. I have to admit @theycallmedan has a truly amazing way with words and I can read over and over anything he writes.

I totally agree with you that the Steem Blockchain needs more curators supporting posts, and less people trying to be content creators and curators at the same time. It needs to look at the people who are amazing and bring them forward into the public view, while taking the time to make it financially viable for everyone else to support their work.

10.10.2019 21:45

I never know what to say or how to write it when comments like this show up in my world, other than thank you.

I still have my human moments though and things can fall apart fairly quickly. Mistakes we all learn from. I don't like feeling bad after saying things that only exist because of the heat of the moment. I could show you a few examples of my darkest hours... LOL!

Dreemsteem will remember how hard I tried to convince her to stay. I tried every trick in the book to break through her self-proclaimed stubbornness. Like so many others, I think she would have been finding success now under this new model. We argued and laughed at the same time. That was a unique experience.

Theycallmedan has a fancy way of taking what he sees in his head and painting a picture with words for all to see. Quite the motivator. Talks the talk and walks the walk.

I totally agree with you that the Steem Blockchain needs more curators supporting posts, and less people trying to be content creators and curators at the same time. It needs to look at the people who are amazing and bring them forward into the public view, while taking the time to make it financially viable for everyone else to support their work.

There's a lot of unrealized potential with this concept. I've written about it plenty of times in posts and comments. Sometimes I think if I could just project what I see inside the minds of those interested, they'd see the entire entertainment industry business model shift towards what can be achieved here and the old ways would be left in the dust.

10.10.2019 22:28

Yep...I remember 😊

And I'll have you know... My stubbornness is not self-proclaimed!!!πŸ˜‚ Ask @bluefinstudios, @shadowspub or @penderis. They will tell you I'm the most stubborn mule they know... Hehehehe

I did appreciate laughing through our disagreement! And glad to hear you're getting more visibility!!

And @c0ff33a ...thank you for the lovely words!! I think you're pretty amazing too πŸ€—

10.10.2019 23:13

Feel free to start back up anytime!

11.10.2019 02:22

Thanks 😊

Maybe someday. Under different circumstances. Newsteem still looks too much like oldsteemacceptance to me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't seem like it's working. Changing our attitude into gratitude didn't seem to be the problem

Problem seemed to be a lack of connection, a mindset of bullying, a feeling of "toe the line ...or else", and every time I peek back in.... It seems to still be the same.

To be fair, I don't check in often anymore, so I could very well be wrong.

However, what I can say with almost absolute certainty is that there WAS a certain joy here that has been squelched.

A lot of posts that I see are people phoning it in. It feels like they've given up, but are still here out of loyalty.

Again . A lot. But not everyone.

And it's just my own opinion.

If I ever did consider coming back (and of course, I have. I miss that oldconnection) ... It would have to be something truly special that caught my attention.

And not just something special .. but something special that was truly embraced and supported by the powers that be.

Honestly? I can't see that happening. But I would be thrilled to eat those words if it really did.

Good morning, by the way. πŸ™ƒ

11.10.2019 12:27

If you're focusing on only those packing their bags, it will be difficult to see the ones unpacking. Not everyone is happy. That's normal here and in life. Those steemicide posts have existed for three years.

Many of the bidbots are switching over to curation so rather than one Curie-like operation, there are a few and I'm thinking more on the horizon. Part of the reason so many struggled to get noticed (and rewarded) before was due to the fact more SP was set aside to be purchased as paid votes. Now that that SP is coming back to be used as curation, there are a lot of people noticing an increase in votes. This place was desperate for more people around actually consuming the content and being part of their communities and social circles.

The most disgruntled of the bunch were the ones farming the reward pool. If you read my original comment here in this thread you'll see how those folks were harming the actual content producers. People talk about folks leaving now but they're not acknowledging the thousands who left over the span of two years because of the damage caused then by that system and those only looking out for number one.

The current direction and goals are based on good intentions. The point is often misconstrued. It's always difficult to get everyone on the same page.

You mentioned bullying and I can show you a few examples of bullying. It's often directed at those who wish to stick around here and keep moving forward.

Some are angry about downvotes and taking that aggression out on others. That sense of entitlement shines bright and offers everyone a glimpse of their true colors. As I stated in my original comment here, the act of buying a vote downvotes everyone else and buries their work. They're not angry when they downvote everyone with a paid upvote, yet they act like taking something away is so terrible when it's something they thought was theirs.

There's still a long way to go before the intended balance can fully take shape. A lot of folks I know who are sticking around have been through everything here almost and have always been thinking about the long term health of the platform. These little bumps in the road now while things balance out don't stress them out as much as the folks who were used to one thing and one thing only.

11.10.2019 16:55

No...I was talking more about the loyal users that i know, not the ones packing ... But.. again (only my opinion)

I did read what you wrote earlier, but it seems odd to me that when people get downvotes, they're told "who cares?the rewards weren't yours to begin with"

So then that should apply to the people who didn't use bidbots too, right?

Why complain over someone else's willingness to pay for rewards when what they perceive to be "theirs" really isn't.

And there wasn't just bid not use for shit posts. I myself used bidbots for anything that I wanted to pay to be seen more. Contests. Special releases. Whatever. I still see nothing wrong with that. But if I was here, I'd be bullied into "getting my mind right"

Seems like a double standard to me. Get on board with our thinking or leave.

Plus... I think too many people look into other people's wallets anyway. Just because something is transparent and visible doesn't mean it's healthy to walk around and be so concerned with everyone else's payout.

Not saying you.
Just a general sense that I've seen in "my post deserves more than that post.." mentality.

I understand there is a balance, but I think the balance will always sway to the side of "I want more cuz he/she has more."

And... That's just the human condition lol no "cure" for that really.

But I'm honestly happy that there are still a mass of people that you're encountering that enjoy Steemit.

And I do hope that it grows even more in that direction for you!

Peace πŸ™‚

11.10.2019 17:14

Those who were hit by those using the paid votes were told "who cares" for two years. Those who received downvotes recently were not told "who cares." That's a myth being spread around.

I was receiving downvotes before and after the changes. Even the big 'Freedom' account downvoted me early on.

When the downvotes are abused by those acting irrationally, there are people going around now to upvote and help make things right.

The paid votes can still be used to promote, apparently. All one has to do is decline or burn the rewards. The method of using bots to purchase cheap steem is what gets downvoted. The profit portion is downvoted, the rest remains and post still exists. Many who purchased recently to reach the trending page would complain about receiving a downvote, yet still be on the trending page. They got the visibility they wanted. That concept of 'visibility' can no longer be abused for profit. If you look at Markymark's post about buildawhale switching over to manual curation, you'll see how he had added 44000 accounts to a blacklist due to abuse. That is insane. Something needed to be done. Moving forward, the new plan is to incorporate the promoted feature in with the trending page. It's far more sustainable, can't be abused, and those in need of visibility will get it. You can't show me 44000 accounts who bought votes, gained visibility, got noticed, and can now blog and be rewarded with the earned organic following they acquired from purchasing votes β€” and that's because that system wasn't designed to actually help people, it was designed to make vote sellers way more money than all of those who purchased votes combined. The reward pool was designed to be shared, not mined with exploits. Those exploits allowed a small handful of accounts to make most of the money while the content producers numbering in the thousands got less than them. Again, something needed to be done. That was unsustainable. A failed experiment. People still have options and in the future will have more options and those options will be designed to help everyone else around them rather than hinder them.

But if I was here, I'd be bullied into "getting my mind right"

Nobody is actually doing that though. That's just how some are taking it.

11.10.2019 17:39

Go get 'em Tiger πŸ˜‰

11.10.2019 17:46


11.10.2019 17:49

I can't tell if that's a thumbs down or a mushroom cloud lol

11.10.2019 17:54

It's a tiger!

11.10.2019 18:02

Yes!!! I totally knew that! Lololol

11.10.2019 18:19

Well I don't know about the most stubborn mule but you can dig your heels in pretty well when you choose to.

He's right though, you would likely be doing okay now with more curation available. I keep hoping you get the urge one day to toss up a post just for old time sake.

But ... sometimes I wish unicorns were real too, eh.

11.10.2019 22:33


Are they not!?!?!


11.10.2019 22:56

Well.. do a post and prove them real lol

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12.10.2019 01:16


Heyyyyyy. Wait a minute!

I'm onto your tricks!!! 😜

12.10.2019 01:25

Tricks? I am without tricks

Posted using Partiko iOS

12.10.2019 01:27

That's what someone with tricks would say! Lol

12.10.2019 01:31

that would be tricky for a person with tricks to say anything tricky .. that would be giving tricks away. You know tricky people wont give tricks away.

Okay ... so if unicorns are real... produce one

Or ... just write a post and we'll dreem together

12.10.2019 10:56

well said, NoNamesLeft!!!

10.10.2019 16:17

Solid points.
Wehn bidbots were around. I had to use them because it was the only way to get noticed since no one was curating. I was beginning to think I had joined a weird cult.

everyone's right to decide on whatever the fuck they want to do on a decentralized platfrom as long as they're not screwing over anyone else.

I sort of agree with this. However downvoting is also a right. Does that mean being downvoted is a risk? We have a responsibility/ freedom to avoid getting a downvote by 'being good Steemians' (you can call it something else).
You can't get downvoted if you don't post. That was the issue before. For a social media platform, 90% of the SP was owned by people who never posted.
I feel bad for people who invested at 3 or 6 or whatever dollars per steem, I think I bough a few above 1. The point is, the price was over inflated. The system collapsed and we are trying to scrap up the pieces.
It won't happen with bid bots around.

I always tell the hold outs, start a bid bot scot tribe, use the minimal amount of sp to have your rc, then make a bot that only accepts your token for bids in your token....see how well your tribe does.

No one takes up this challenge because they all know bid bots only worked for few people when few people were using them. It was like the aristocracy blaming the peasants for being unruly.

10.10.2019 22:59

Hey buddy, great post as always.

I still receive downvotes on every post from my 3 accounts everyday. I stopped using bid bots around 1 week on 2 accounts and i have never used any bidding service on the last One is my personal account, another is @steemcryptosicko and the last is @spinvest. I dont profit from the last 2 at all and they are so community driven, it sadness me to get downvotes on them for whatever the reason maybe. I can understand CryptoSicko a little but spinvest is pure.

I think that curation trails are worse than bidding bots and lead to less manual curation in the end. At least with bidding bots, you never committed any of your voting power.

Keep it real Guilty

10.10.2019 06:28

Those two accounts with 15 SP each won't hurt you and their voting power is quite low as well. Accounts like that aren't downvoting because of bidbots or anything. Just being a nuisance. Treat them like a Youtuber would when they get thousands of dislikes. They mean nothing. Are any larger accounts downvoting? I didn't dig through two weeks of history on all three accounts.

10.10.2019 07:45

Yeah, that dont bother me that much, just annoying. I dont get downvotes from big accounts. Im just hoping they are newsteem safe and it's been hard finding answers to the honest.

12.10.2019 04:48

Just wanting to applaud this gem:

β€œNo one reads bid botted posts; you just feel better about doing all that damn work when you see some numbers on the post, never mind you paid for those numbers.”

10.10.2019 06:43

Agreed! :-)

10.10.2019 23:43

Time will tell as far as how all the free downvotes affect the economy.

However, there are some things that too many people can't see beyond the treeline:

Leasing SP (stake)

Well, isn't that the same thing, think about it.
One pays to increase their SP, so that their vote is higher in value.
It is used to upvote whatever that person wants to vote on.
The exact same thing as "bid bots":
One pays for a one time vote from a user that has a high level of SP.

Same sh#t different bucket.

Then how about the other thing that people don't see right in front of their noses:

The demand for Steem and SBD affect the prices of these tokens.

By getting rid of the bodbots, we have literally deleted the most frequently used tool out there which was placing a demand for Steem.
and somewhat a demand for SBD to be exchanged to Steem.

Note: early 2018 when I suggested that we should lobby for bidbots to use the internal exchange of SBD to Steem, whereby SBD gets burned, many said "NO".


Won't go into that here, no point in wasting my time on it again, as most won't even bother to think about it, let alone do the maths.

Further more:
prior to the bidbots, there were many instances where people were selling their votes privately via all sorts of means and devious little third, fourth fiftyseventh accounts.

Bidbots got rid of all of that.

and as for the circlejerks.

Well I called it and again I was told "NO".

Plus the bidbots were accepting delegations and paying out accordingly. So they were not making any one person rich, they were open to ANYONE who saw any opportunity there to invest into Steem and STAKE IT.

Rather nice thought for those out there who trade away all day every day only to maybe lose money if it is a bad day. Bidbots gave those people out there in the Crypto Sphere a REAL option as far as INVESTING goes.

Nobody stopped anyone from using manual curation for anything at any given time.

In fact it was always encouraged by every single Steemian, including the bidbot owners.

Did I own a bidbot?

Did I ever delegate to a bid bot?
Yes, once, to a bloke from India who asked if I would delegate to help him start up his own business and become financially independent in life.
It was I think 500 SP.

This was in 2018.
Once he had a few thousand SP in delegation I undelegated my 500 SP, as he was well above 0.

So please don't think that I was some Bidbot owner or anything.

I just lay things out from an angle that many loudmouths out there don't ever want to express.
Most of them being people who want everything for free in life.

So yeah, in other words they want the whales to vote on their sh#t for free.

Which had absolutely nothing to do with bidbots, but they couldn't stand the fact that some people were able to make a circa upt to 5% profit at times on invested funds.

Wooooohooooo imagine that, potential profit of up to 5%, better than any fk banks out there.

Don't see why that would intrigue anyone in the Crypto sphere to want to take a look at these private business running bidbots.

Dude, everything you said is spot on, but I know that the only place where I can say this and not get judged by the post author for laying things out without gift wrapping is when talking with you.

Not many people out there can handle facts nowadays.


and yes:

As I openly said, time will tell.

Demand, business, economics vs "feelings".

Time will definitely tell.


10.10.2019 12:15

Not many people out there can handle facts nowadays.

The truth of what our world has devolved into.
Not many can handle the facts because it takes work to understand them and their ramifications.

I for one am happy to see the bots go. I have rarely used bid-bots but did use Smartsteem and Minnowbooster some. The feeling of having to pay-to-play on my own blog was a frustration of mine that was hard to reconcile.

Reluctantly I am seeing the benefits of the recent hf as I have seen better response to my posts and I have been "forced" to interact more.

10.10.2019 13:45

There never was any anti-organic fever thrown out there.
Not one person ever hinted that people shouldn't engage more with each other, in fact it was promoted by many individuals.

Yet, my points are not so much about those out there who can't accept changes, it is purely about what an economy is based around and what an economy such as Steem should be concentrating on.

Just like with any economy out there, demand, business, trading, interest, outreach, diversity, flexibility and the overall value that all brings about is what gives an economy the opportunity to thrive and expand.

Wile those who refuse to accept these facts based on whatever feelings they may have about certain aspects of an economy are louder than the facts, we shall be taking one step forwards and then two steps back.

Steem is an economy of its own, with two tokens.

Steem is not "just blogging", it is an entire economy that bases itself on social networking, which is a heck of a lot more than just one branch of online interaction that we know as blogging.

Being an economy, with such a diverse nature of opportunities, we can nurture that diversity, that open and free market place or we can introduce another 1001 repressive tools so as to make it what 'some people' want for their own personal reasons and opinions.

Free and open market place or a closed very tight bunch of people who refuse to allow any changes that are not within their not so diverse and closed scope of views on the future of Steem.

Ohhh, btw, my goal isn't to lobby for the return of Bidbots, I am just stating facts, without any emotions/feelings.

Call me the devils advocate, so to say.

10.10.2019 13:58

There wasn't people preaching the bot, but actions speak louder than words so many followed suit and did what the big boys did.

The scope of the potential economics of the platform is pretty wide which is where it becomes difficult for most to see. There are the few keys that have presented potential like Splinterlands and such but so much is un or under utilized. The platform is potentially SUPER diverse but that needs eyes, people to pay attention and utilize.

The absolutely most important thing for the platform, (in my view) is user base/retention. Without us here using the place it is a ghost town and then a true circle-jerk.

Building a new economy is not easy and takes most societies many years to achieve a workable system.

10.10.2019 14:18

& add to that the fact that Steem is an economy of its own, which as such determines the value of the currencies.

A fact that many do not want to touch on as it doesn't suit their opinions on what they see in front of them.

"tree line" as mentioned earlier.

10.10.2019 14:22

A fact that many do not want to touch on as it doesn't suit their opinions on what they see in front of them.

Cognitive dissonance.

10.10.2019 14:31

FFS Jack How the feck am I suppose to follow that

10.10.2019 19:28

Which ever way you feel appropriate.

Freedom of speech is something that Steem prides itself on, the ability to monetize/tokenize it is another thing we pride ourselves on.

The ability to be a part of a free market economy is something one would think we pride ourselves on.

So if you write about it, there should be absolutely no reason to be living in any type, form or fashion of fear for writing it.


10.10.2019 19:32

One thing that people don't say is that without bidbots the great majority of the posts will not receive full rewards because they don't reach the minimum 20 steem value. I think bidbots should be allowed to help anyone to reach full reward.
How about a maximum value for an upvote? Or better, instead of blindly downvoting all the bidbots users, why don't these "paladins of the downvote" simply check the value of the bought upvote?

10.10.2019 14:02

I realize this is slightly off topic, but, Bidbots bring to mind Downvotes, and there's been a recent Downvote spate.

Some of the downvoting is going on by new, tiny SP accounts seemingly pointing back to CamilleSteemer.

I notice many of these new accounts are still working on SP delegated by their initial 15SP Delegation from SteemitInc.
I see tiny transactions being sent form the the wallets, to another account.
I was wondering, @justinw is it possible to Code that people still working off their initial Delegation are NOT allowed to move Steem out, until they PayOff their initial delegation? Maybe one way to limit the effectiveness of these new spammers?

would this help cut down on the issue?

10.10.2019 16:15

@bluefinstudios it is not possible to prevent people from withdrawing any of their own stake, no. Something like that would require a hard fork, and, that would likely be a very controversial topic - even if it had 'good intentions'.

However, if you notice people abusing their free 15SP delegation loan, you can submit here for it to be removed: (this has been done for thousands of accounts)

The way the free delegation loan currently works is that their delegation is slowly removed as they gain more of their own SP. It's also highly reduced if they are inactive for a long time (leaving just enough to become active again in order to keep good UX for returning users).

11.10.2019 21:56

Where exactly would someone report an account like ?
I see the github, but where is the place to report?
seems that all jixta does is downvote and send money to Camileresteemer

13.10.2019 00:00

thanks @guiltyparties and thanks @jackmiller for presenting this on @pypt #pypt

It brings up a really important point and I am glad we are still talking about it.

10.10.2019 16:19

You have received a @buildawhale manual curation vote.

10.10.2019 17:26

I think people in general find one thing wrong with something or one thing right with something and that makes their mind up. Any discussion after that point seems to declare war for some reason. The auto defence is way out of control in a lot of instance.

There are a few points I would like to debate over from this post. I will try write a post in response.

I am aware of the views of those who down vote and the reasons said. One of the things I have often said in my quest here on Steemit is.
Everyone counts and matters.
I would follow this with.
The most foolish of us can ask more questions than the wisest can answer. Questions. I have so many, maybe it is I who is the foolish one. Or maybe not. A wasted question is the one unasked.

If you would like to read the post I will do. Mention to tag you in a reply.

10.10.2019 19:23

Absolutely my own feelings and a great piece of writing, you nail for better then I can the problems Steem Blockchain has right now facing up to downvotes against posts in the name of protecting the reward pool - with no though on supporting the content creator. Steem needs many people creating amazing content to grow, but they will not come if they see just sniping and rewards moved with no justification .

10.10.2019 21:50

The solution is to make a bid bot tribe that uses a minimal amount of steem power just for enough resource credits. If you only operate on your token, downvotes cannot affect you much.

The problem with this is everyone knows the token will be worth 0 Zero nil. Bid bots were awful. The solution, keep them gone, don't use them. Paid promotion belongs on Facebook not Steem.

10.10.2019 23:03

No one reads bid botted posts; you just feel better about doing all that damn work when you see some numbers on the post, never mind you paid for those numbers.

The best bit because it's true. No one ever did which put paid to the promotion and being more visible aspect that was claimed. In fact I used to say to people that a lot of people with any stake that mattered intentionally ignored botted posts. Which is and was true!

10.10.2019 23:35

!trdovoter 100

11.10.2019 10:23

Congratulations @theguruasia, you are successfuly trended the post that shared by @guiltyparties!
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11.10.2019 10:24

Sorry @theguruasia, you're not allowed to summon the bot on the non-listed tags!

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11.10.2019 10:24

Congratulations @guiltyparties, your post successfully recieved 6.483906 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

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13.10.2019 15:02

It is easy to say build something but how do you do that with only 25 or 56 SP and if no one sees you?
I ignore the trending pages, never used a bid- bod simply because I do not understand how it works but I am not blind or stupid.

Many who are now fighting those using them becamebig thanks to using it and/or even owned their own bid-bot and that makes one think too.

Happy Sunday. πŸ’•

Posted using Partiko Android

13.10.2019 16:35