@ocd Downvotes Reply

@ocd and some other whales seem to have gone on a rampage blindly using their free downvotes to target anyone that is using some kind of bid-bot or Tribe-bot upvotes. While I get the downvoting of shitposts that get bid botted into trending along with combatting blatant farming abuse, giving blind downvotes to anyone that dares to touch any kind of vote-buying is just completely crazy especially with HF21 and the non-linear reward curve which leaves even mid-sized accounts totally powerless. The 2 downvotes I received on posts I worked over an hour on last week really make me want to go in full power down totally giving up on this platform...

To start off, I don't take the downvotes personal (even though they do trigger me like crazy wanting to go on a retaliation rampage just like everyone that gets downvoted) and do in a sense believe they come from a point they are done with good intentions. I also am open to change my opinion if any solid arguments are actually presented for these downvotes.

So basically I've been on Steemit for over 2 years investing in Steem because I see (saw) some potential (most at 0.80$-1$ price), powering it up growing my account now to 10k+ SP. I pretty much bet on sports for a living and have been using my blog as a tool to stay sharp during the entire season forcing myself to make previews on every single match in the Belgian League while keeping very close track of my results while also sharing the bigger bets I take. I know this is a very niche topic which to some is highly valuable while for mosts it's probably like any other post2mine content on this platform.

Why I am on STEEM

Having a blog on Steem has done great things for me. Most importantly, my betting results clearly benefitted and actually enjoy the daily writing / having a blog aspect despite the average post taking at least an hour to make. I managed to make real friends and connected to some like-minded people in the process. Recently I also started to make my content into something of a small business as the bets I'm sharing are making people money to the extent that they are willing to pay for them using the copytip platform. I guess not many people on Steemit can claim that people actually pay real money for their content. I also put up some affiliate links from the bookies I personally use and trust trying to make it all more than just about the post-earnings.

Why I Buy Upvotes

I am not always the most engaging person on Steemit (most my engagement is on Discord), I blog about a very niche topic and don't have many upvote4upvote operations going on. This makes my average post payouts quite low given the fact that I have 10k SP. Most upvotes are self-empowered and I even have my own curation project (@upvoteshares) which is helping many get some consistent upvotes. This is what the average post payouts look like 23 hours after it was posted.

The EIP and the non-linear reward curve make upvotes worth less on posts with smaller payouts which pretty much make it impossible for anyone to vote on those. Instead, it's far more profitable from a curation point of view to go for the ones you know will get a ton of upvotes. Those that do show support pretty much also get punished for it with decreased curation rewards. This makes absolutely no sense to me and buying upvotes is just a way to both thank the ones that give me support knowing they will get better curation rewards and as a reason for people to consider putting me on their auto-upvote list. Nothing more nothing less, none of the posts get even close to trending and if they did, the quality would even be far above the average there.

I usually get my posts to somewhere between 7$ and 10$ which isn't even reaching the point to overcome the non-linear reward curve using @sportsvoter | @tipu | @steemmonsters (which got nerfed after @transcript-junky who is in our guild got bullied with a big downvote using their tribe upvotes as a genuine content creator who wanted some exposure) . Blindly downvoting anything that is using some kind of vote-buying is completely bonkers.

Unless you are inside of the 'curation circle' or making posts about Steem and how great it is there is an extremely small chance to actually get curated. I've been on Steemit for 2+ years posting consistent quality content always making a custom thumbnail but none of these posts have ever fitted the curation and I don't even mind that. I always liked the idea that its possible to empower yourself on this platform and value smaller consistent upvotes way more compared to having to hope for the rare whale upvote. "Honest Curation" is also a complete fallacy on this platform especially with the non-linear reward curve and it's not scalable (I can make an entirely separate post on that).

Just as an example of how curation groups work, making an ironic post on how great #newsteem is while what is written completely destroys the new system will instantly get curated because it's looking like another post about steem and how great it is which is the pretty much the success formula.

I can also fully get behind the reply of @stimp1024 about bought upvotes and how the aren't by default bad for the platform...

Steemit no longer my Home ?

I always considered Steemit the home of my blog and have invested a massive amount of time into it also buying quite some SP all very much enjoying it in the process regardless the price of Steem. After these ridiculous downvotes, I'm not sure if this is any longer the case now as I feel totally bullied.

https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmVUsW2bGi9cJeMMQYavSXsecAje9ZizVAsH88KpAwZJx8/image.pngI also post my content on Scorum mostly because the Betscorum betting exchange has quite some potential. The way the devs are neglecting their own platform makes it hard to see a real future there though to make that my home.

https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmeFJgTG2uKdy5BLhPaTuS82HYgznuSr2yqvDAfk9E2b6S/image.pngPowering down or delegating all my SP out and moving all-in on Sportstalk.social would also be an option. Purely from an earnings point of view, that would be a great way to go about it. Up to this point I always valued STEEM more and one of the reasons I invested in SPORTS is because the @sportsvoter which all gave it some real value for me. Steem now dropped massively in my personal valuation with the downvote bullies and I might just giving up like many others have already with this new system.

https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmZEAjMKKSTKk7uyA1MdoCNgLgPcMM8TczJtp7hgjX3u7c/image.pngThe option I'm closest to is to move my blogging activity to a proper WordPress blog using steempress to copy-paste it into steem. Let's be honest, when it comes down to blogging, steemit is mostly just one big facade with no incentive whatsoever to bring actual quality content. This for me is the main downside. I really enjoy checking in on what some of the friends I made are up to, but as far as content consumption it's on average nowhere near what can be found on real blogs or youtube and such.

The sad thing is that there is not much I can do aside from making a reply to these downvotes. I wrote about how #newsteem would be a killswitch for all small to mid-size bloggers (HF21 Dolphin Killer) and the free downvotes along with the Non-linear reward curve are making it happen right now...

So I hope @ocdb, @acidyo, @anomadsoul and others start having some common sense and stop their blind downvote rampage on all the posts that use some kind of vote-buying and realize it does way more harm to the platform than good. Thanks for completely ruining my day and wasting more of my time having to make this reply post!

Comments 49

It's refreshing to see an opinion in support of downvoting that isn't purely based on greed or trying to promote some scheme. It gives me a different perspective that's worth thinking about.

I'm still getting decent rewards from posts that aren't about Steem. Maybe I'm in one of these curation circles? I normally blog about my life and most of my upvotes are random trails or curation projects.

To be honest I don't think the people you tagged will stop downvoting bid bots. They are after vote trading next.

I can't see why they wouldn't allow someome to create a tribe bidbot that is purely centered around those tokens and only accepts and votes in those tokens. The issue with tribe bidbots is they were taking Steem in exchange which seemed wrong.

The issue with bidding on Steem is everyone uses it amd they had three years to fix things with bid bots and vote selling and trading, but the price kept declining. I say we give it at least a year before concluding this destroyed Steem. In the meantime, it will be sad to see some people who were honest, but still affected like you go.
I think you should just lower your rOI expectations for awhile until you find a new niche that works.
If a tribe bot just has like 100sp to get sufficient RC for accepting and bidding in its tokens only, I'm sure no one will bother it.

07.10.2019 23:02

Last month I placed a bid using Steemmonsters and a day later it got downvoted. I was surprised do I decided to go further into it and see why. That was the subject of a post I did where I realized that there is a crew going around downvoting content specifically upvoted by tribe bid bots.

If you ask me, I find it incredibly selfish that OCD are taking advantage of delgated sp to go around bullying people and most recently the SCT community who have started retaliating against OCD posts.

It makes me think that the hard fork was all about killing bots. But even then I said they would adapt to the new ecosystem which they did so the only option these people have is downvoting.

Since no curation trail actually upvotes sports related content, maybe it would be a great idea to come together and build our very own. Meanwhile, delegate to bots like tipu or smartsteem and earn passively and put your time and effort into the sports community.

Posted using Partiko Android

07.10.2019 23:30

Can you explain the purpose of the SCT tribe?

08.10.2019 00:05

It is a Korean community. Just the way Steemit is an unlikely community for English speaking individuals.They have invested heavily in Steem. There is definitely some misuse of bots in that community but OCD has attacked them with blanket downvotes. The funny thing is that they cannot even discern the quality of the post because it is in a totally different language. But who cares? Downvote them just because they are using a scot bot token bid bot.

08.10.2019 00:27

I can read and write Korean.

The Koreans are well aware of the controversy behind vote trading and buying under new steem.

Some disagree and decided they will fight back with all their steem power.

The problem with the dcot bots is that steem or sp is involved at one end, its not purely sct recieved for an sct vote (a little sp for rc is needed but 100 is probably more than enough, they have millions) which may be acceptable to more steem users since it would barely influence steem price.

I don't think understanding Korean is necessary to see what is going on. If a post is wrongly flagged for bit bot abuse or being over rewarded, the person flagged should ask for clarification. A few members of the community can use English and so far they have chosen to revenge downvote.

It is not a disagreement over sigle posts, it is a disagreement over how Steem should move forward. Is vote trading and buying acceptable?

Some people are starting to think the only way to solve this is to eliminate the reward pool entirely so only scot tokens or smts may have it. Until then the disagreement will continue.

08.10.2019 00:50

Top replies.

08.10.2019 02:13

On the scot bots I partially agree since I can see how that can be detrimental to the price of Steem. In the same breath I recognise that most minnows and dolphins are moving over to condensers because curation over on Steemit is practically non existent unless you are in a particular inner circle.

I have been curated twice by the people at smartsteem on non-sport related content. However, like costanza I prefer talking about sports and you never get curated for such content hence the need for the bots.

I am sure if he never used the scot bots he wouldn't have been downvoted. But if he did not use the other bots as well, how will he compete for less than a handfull of manual curators in a sea of minnows and dolphins?

Is vote trading or buying acceptable? Probably not but it cannot be eliminated. I would even go as far as to say that using automated voters is just as bad or even worse.

How many of us have our friends on autovoters? Do we even care if they are posting quality posts?

Where do we draw the line?

08.10.2019 04:16

I would even go as far as to say that using automated voters is just as bad or even worse.
I don't think you understand how voting works which makes sense because you are really upset and confused about why people don't like bidbots and vote selling.

Gaming curation by auto voting doesn't remove any more rewards from the reward pool than regular voting. Whether you get 200% curation efficiency or 20%, your vote removed the same amount of rewards from the reward pool. It just messes with other people who are voting on that same post and they have a choice to vote on that post or not.

Autovoting is only a serious problem if it is trading back and forth with the same people automatically.
Most of the people using auto voters are just slightly gaming curation or doing it for their convenience. In the grand scheme of things, it is not a problem at all. I hope this clears things up.

08.10.2019 14:46

Gaming curation by auto voting doesn't remove any more rewards from the reward pool than regular voting.

This is where we are losing each other. The vote amount is not what is in question but the post itself. Automatic votes means that the account owners are not actually going around looking for new content to support. Everybody is entitled to do whatever they want with their upvotes.

My problem is when these individuals go around downvoting people who promote their content with bid bots, which is not profitable if you are bidding the right way as I would call it. They intimate that you should post good content and hope to get upvoted. But how many accounts are actively manually curating the thousands of post daily?

Are minnows meant to wait for scraps or can't we promote our content at our own expense for visibility?

Just like costanza wrote, we are slowly killing off minnows and low level dolphins and that is slowly reflecting in the price of steem.

08.10.2019 19:23

I completely agree that a lack of manual curation is a problem. However consistanly good content creators do get noticed.

Maybe a lot of poor quality content creators who used bid bots to inflate their post values were also inflating their egos. In reality their content wasn't that good. Steem isn't here to reward people based on effort or those who make the most noise.

Find me some high quality content that isn't rewarded and I'll upvote it. It's difficult to find this. I can find a lot of crap that is over rewarded, but less and less.

Next we can deal with auto curation. However, it's a little harder to punish people for voting without punishing the content creator because everyone will just make alts for curation.

As for double posting. At least block trades downvoted it removing the rewards for those people who now wasted their votes. At worst, I've seen people self vote it. Actually, the best I saw was someone who had an emergency post saved for when it happened. Unfortunately, you cannot set beneficiaries or decline rewards after you post. It would need a hardfork to change this and it is a minor issue.

Just like costanza wrote, we are slowly killing off minnows and low level dolphins and that is slowly reflecting in the price of steem.

Relative to BTC the price and rank of Steem has increased since HF21 was implemented. This means the downvoting hasn't destroyed the price.

Admittingly, there was a decline in the value of Steem before the hardfork. This could have been whales and orcas running away. But statistics show the amount of whales and orcas and dolphins has actually increased and so have over all active accounts.

The decrease was probably related to people who foresaw the demise of bots (ie. the people only here to delegate to bots). Therefore, I think the price decrease was also a result of Steem doing an update that investors didn't want (EIP instead of SMTs), let's wait for SMTs.


09.10.2019 01:11

Steem isn't here to reward people based on effort or those who make the most noise.

This is actually the primary way people actually got noticed in the early steem days. Most of these people were able to build communities around themselves and those are the bigger dolphins and whales we have today.

The other way is to join a wave. I hated the EIP and agreed with proposal project and that set me apart from the wave. I could not be speaking up about the things I find wrong and that would reflect positively on my author rewards but that is not in personality. Just speak against bots and see how quickly ocd discover your posts.

Relative to BTC the price and rank of Steem has increased since HF21 was implemented. This means the downvoting hasn't destroyed the price.

I would love to see the stats on new accounts, active minnow accounts, power downs and power ups. That tells you more about the overall health of the blockchain ecosystem. I am sure you are aware Steem Inc stopped selling their Steem for a short period of time and that stabilized the coin in a torrid bear market.

But if people are no longer engaging as much as they used to pre-hardfork especially on lower level accounts that account for the largest group of individuals just tells you everything you need to know. Would you know where I can get such stats because I could do a deep dive and come up with a post. Right now I am going off more of my experience rather than irrefutable stats.

09.10.2019 19:01

I was against the use of a non-linear reward curve. I would be more in favor of a step. Reducing rewards for people who earn under 2 Steem would have been more appropriate than 20 just to get rid of the people who are voting at 0.1% with only 20sp in their account or whatever.

I don't understand people used to get rewards by all sorts of ways. However, Steem has matured. Just think of the wild west analogy.

There are a lot of statistics out there for Steem. None of them I've seen are showing bad new as a result of the new Steem changes.

I follow abh12345's engagement league, the engagement seems stable. No one really cares that comment voting is no longer as common. Honestly, I think the decline in Steem's price stopped it just as much as anything. People will engage if the content is interesting or 'engaging' that's about it.

10.10.2019 10:42

You're the third person today that I'm really upset to see having really negative experiences with this new downvoting trend! I commented on a very similar post from @felt.buzz earlier. I feel like you both are very respected bloggers and bring a lot to the community. I wish that people would see the whole of someone's behavior before making a downvote based on one action. I've been lucky enough to get curated well since the fork, but it makes me question my dedication to the platform when people who have been just as dedicated as I have (if not more) are feeling bullied.

Posted using Partiko Android

07.10.2019 23:49

Well, things are the way they are. It was only a matter of time before the free downvoters were going to cause a way more toxic environment. They started out properly targetting shitpost that were botted into trending along with pure farming. They are not tickling down to fighting every kind of bid bot. What's next? nuking anyone who dares to do a withdraw. I am glad you are doing great with the new system! Keep it up and thanks for the support.

08.10.2019 11:04


What's next? nuking anyone who dares to do a withdraw.

Is the next logical step for them and I have been sick since I came here of hearing the 'hodl' snobs telling us to buy and hold. Where's the real-world use case of Steem if no one uses it in the real world?
If the fucking bid bot owners had done a decent job of stopping shit posts on their bots in the first place (off which the bid bot owners made a fortune in profits), we wouldn't have this current problem.

newsteem is nothing more than old bessie mate members taking care of each other.

08.10.2019 11:49

I hear you mate, and I've been struggling to find the motivation to write much myself. Genuine content producers at dolphin level or below are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. If you buy votes you get downvoted, but if you don't you are stuck behind the reward curve. Either way, you're not going to earn a financial reward for your effort in this climate.

That said, there aren't many better options around the place and you have a network effect here that is hard to rebuild or transfer to a new platform. I totally understand if you power down (it's what I have done) but stick around with me and lets see if this platform can get to the promised land of genuine curation. Until then, just consider it "audience building"

08.10.2019 02:00

You pretty much summarised it perfectly @buggedout. You won't hear me complain so much about low payouts as I do well enough on Steem in general. The downvotes really are a step too far though making it nearly impossible to get anything going blogging wise. I think the only way genuine cration could work is if it came directly out of people's pockets instead of from the reward pool. Human nature pretty much runs completely against all the current model tries to achieve.

08.10.2019 10:47

I don't really agree with much of what you said here but this:

The EIP and the non-linear reward curve make upvotes worth less on posts with smaller payouts which pretty much make it impossible for anyone to vote on those. Instead, it's far more profitable from a curation point of view to go for the ones you know will get a ton of upvotes. Those that do show support pretty much also get punished for it with decreased curation rewards.

It would be nice if you folks stopped spreading that myth. My highest curation rewards come from posts I vote late on, without knowing if the post will do well after my vote, and many of them of low rewards when I vote.

Screenshot (672).png

That's how it is for me all the time. My biggest rewards come from taking a gamble. Honest curation is a thing. You don't need to be in some kind of a circle either. You don't need to post butt kissery. All this whining is annoying.

08.10.2019 02:31

Upvotes are worth less on small posts. 100% on this one gives 0.08$ (on higher voting Power) 100% upvote on a big post adds 0.13$...

08.10.2019 08:00

I know that, but if the post is worthwhile and you're curating honestly, there's a strong chance that vote value goes up, once more votes come in, if they do. The low value initially isn't permanent, unless nobody else was interested.

If nobody else comes along, that producer still gets more than nothing, which is why I think it's bad form to discourage people from voting with that myth you're promoting.

08.10.2019 08:08

Agree 100%. Math is math. There's no arguing against it. A lucky curation pick here or there doesn't mean anything in the long term numbers.

08.10.2019 12:11

Congratulations, you are the worst curator on the platform in terms of gaining rewards! And I mean that honestly, it used to be me, I put a lot of effort into it, and I was really proud of it. It means your votes are going to authors they can really benefit, albeit less so than it did before hf20.

What it doesn't mean is that because your personal curation rewards happen to be reversed from the way the general math works, that the entire general math is a myth. Votes do mean more, and earn more, on posts that are voted highly. In many cases late votes on highly-rewarded posts reward more than early votes on low-rewarded posts. This is the nature of the "convergent linear" system, and your personal experience with voting on a few posts doesn't falsify it.


10.10.2019 05:47

I just vote. I don't really care what happens. Showing my support to whoever, whenever. If things go well, they go well. If it's good for them, it's good for me. If it's not good for them, at least I tried, can't win them all.

Yes, I realize if I place my vote down on a post with high rewards, my vote gives more, or whatever you're saying.

In the past you've been kind of a jerk to me so I'm not sure if you're talking to me just to be a dick again... or what. Regardless, have a nice day.

10.10.2019 06:08

Hi @costanza

As much as I don’t like seeing producers of decent and original content receiving downvotes, I have to agree with what abitcoinsceptic is saying.

The years of being paid to promote your own content have not been good for token price, or holding onto accounts that have not wanted to join the race to zero.

The ridiculous return for delegating stake to a bidbot and therefore ‘being paid to look away’ has to end and investors should be happy with the yearly 10/20% curation returns on voting for what they really want to vote on.

Buying votes with tribe tokens to promote your post outside of that ecosystem makes no sense to me - surely this vote needs to land as a local token vote? I don’t look at sportstalksocial content via sport related tags on steemit.com

Back to sleep, cheers.

08.10.2019 02:34

The entire "all bid bots / tribe bots are bad and must be downvoted" idea is just extremely inconsistent. How about AFIT to STEEM conversions, those must be nuked aswel pretty much killing the Actifit project. Also the entire idea is based on a premise where honest curation can be something that works with this system. You know good that a vast minority is willing to power up and browse through all the garbage 'pos2mine' to find a hidden gem to curate it. Steemit is much more find like-minded people to connect with and support each other. With the non-linear reward curve this is pretty much allowed for whales but not for smaller mid-sized users because votes are worth less on less popular posts which makes no sense.

Also, manual curation groups are not scalable and it's clear that they aren't even reading posts but just upvoting the ones who are inside the circle or writing how great steem is. (See Post).

I agree with stimp1024 (see below) who is an investor himself on the fact that there is a need for something that gives passive investors a reason to invest and get a return as steem has a big inflation. This war of ocd is just crazy, I fully agree that there should be some rules in place but this is really getting extreme and also begs the question where to draw the line.

For big accounts this is all great because all downvotes basically flow back to them. New and smaller accounts are just completely left for dead.

09.10.2019 10:35

I am struck by the fact that this dilemma is caused by the underlying monetization by whales of social interactions of ordinary folks. Presently this causes EIP to create the returns wasteland below ~$20, which seems to be the threshold whales find nominal to financially encourage extracting rewards by using the weight of their stake. It's why you need to use purchased votes in order to get a nominal financial return, and why user retention is dismal.

Most folks don't have substantial stake, and don't get curated by whales manipulating the rewards algorithms to extract the the pool to their wallets, so have no financial incentive to be here. This may be the worst financial algorithm Steem has suffered since it's inception in that regard, as you point out.

Social media is THE most profitable business model in the world today, as the FAANGs prove. Steem is doing it wrong, despite most of the code being intended to do it right, because the ninjaminers personally seek to get rich and were not seasoned investors when they wrote the code. That ninjamined stake is a golden parachute they will ride away on when investors buy it, and thereafter they appear to no longer care what happens to Steem.

This is actually the most charitable view I can take of the situation, and it would be easy to claim that the aspects of the code that potentiate Steem to serve as a basis for volutarist government were little more than a fraudulent ruse to attract rubes that would buy the ninjamine and fill those golden parachutes. I am not actually confident so little ethical purpose actually underlies Steem, but the ninjamine sure makes it look that way.

Sadly for you, and your initial interest in Steem, profiteering from stake weighting is the underlying problem that prevents Steem from growing a market that enable the token price to rise. Steem has a vast potential market of folks that see the truth that centralized social media platforms exclusively profit from their posts and comments, want to speak freely, and that can see the value of discussion of issues and policies on a decentralized platform that inherently enables projects to be funded. Were their posts actually organically valued by virtue of their merit by their peers the user base would be growing virally.

The extraction of those rewards incessantly by profiteers discourages them, and the dust threshold prevents newbs from getting rewards at all almost ubiquitously.

Separating the functional aspects of Steem would be a reasonable compromise, but that would reduce the ROI of the ninjaminers, and will not happen. Profiteering could be eliminated almost completely via the Huey Long algorithm, but that will not happen for the same reason. Were you able to build audience via your posts, and develop a market via Steem for income via your sports related mechanisms separately from your author rewards, that might make it worth your while to have enough Steem to blog and upvote your followers, but the rewards curve and dust limit make that impossible, and the vote buying solution that has arisen is now being destroyed by flaggots.

It's sad, but it is apparent that the ninjaminers are so focused on their own ROI that they are killing the goose that lays golden eggs. It's happening more slowly than I predicted would result from HF21, but as long as the user base continues to decline, it's happening all the same. I am only consoled by the fact that no one at all cares about my disappointment, and it only has meaning to me. I wish I could help, but all I can do is acknowledge that you are left without good options regarding Steem.

A couple dozen whales can't curate at scale, and are unwilling to decline to maximize their ROI nominally to allow the potential community to do it for them. The slope continues to get more slippery with every Hard Fork, and we are left feeling like we should have been lubricated before getting forked so hard.

08.10.2019 05:44

Well said, sir!

Liquor, lubricants and a few choice words before each hard forking would be much appreciated.

08.10.2019 20:13

I have to restrain myself from issuing comments full of choice words after HF21, or seeing serial flagging like it seems to be designed to encourage.

09.10.2019 14:33

Lmao last line

09.10.2019 08:25

Well, I feel I should be loved and lubricated every night, but usually I just get so liquored up I can't even manage a soft fork.

09.10.2019 14:22

Here is some !BEER to start the evening :)

09.10.2019 14:57

LOL fair do!

09.10.2019 15:56

View or trade BEER.

Hey @valued-customer, here is a little bit of BEER for you. Enjoy it!

09.10.2019 14:58

100% agree

09.10.2019 09:31

The thing that really grates on my last nerve about this situation is that the whale's ROI is improving - in Steem. It's crashing in dollars, or other currencies because they're crashing the price of Steem. If they'd back off the rapine and focus on growing the social media as strongly as possible, they'd get a rapidly rising token price resulting from viral social media growth, and they'd make a lot more real money when they cash out. They're stuck pulling tokens off of exchanges presently to try to keep the price from crashing now or at least that's how it looks based on the Poloniex delisting.

09.10.2019 14:28

The sad thing is that there is not much I can do aside from making a reply to these downvotes.

You are making this problem unnecessarily complicated for yourself, the solution is very easy: stop buying votes.

I always liked the idea that its possible to empower yourself on this platform and value smaller consistent upvotes way more compared to having to hope for the rare whale upvote.

Of course you like that idea, because in such model you're getting paid for promoting you're own content, which is a completely broken system if you know how advertisement works: those who promote are supposed to pay for it, not receive positive direct ROI. This was the reality for past 2 years, did it make the price of Steem moon? No, it didn't. The author reward pool is supposed to go to authors that the crowd decides deserves it, you don't decide you're own content's worth here like you can't decide how many thumbs ups you're content is worth in YouTube.

Instead, it's far more profitable from a curation point of view to go for the ones you know will get a ton of upvotes.

If by that you mean it is more profitable to vote on already established content creators, that is actually false. The reason being that the more auto votes start to appear around the 3-5 minute mark, the voters actually start to undermine each others curation rewards, so the more early votes they stack, the less profitable it actually becomes.

The best strategy is to find great content from yet established content producers and upvote them before others or curation guilds find them. And yes, good content will often get big votes, because there's a lot of stake curating right now. If you can't see it, you're not looking.

Just as an example of how curation groups work, making an ironic post on how great #newsteem is while what is written completely destroys the new system will instantly get curated because it's looking like another post about steem and how great it is which is the pretty much the success formula.

It's a fair point that Steem related content often gets a lot of rewards, however, non-Steem related content is also getting a lot curation. I have personally seen this change with my own post rewards.

Now, let me address the comment by @stimp1024. Purchased downvotes are not killing the idea of passive investing. It has changed the business model of bid bots, in fact, many have turned to manual curation in order to generate curation rewards to keep their delegators happy. Quality content gets rewarded and passive investors get their share. The point of the downvotes was to produce exactly that outcome where passive investors can receive passive income but not hurting the ecosystem by undermining Steem's value by allowing it to flow to the hands who have the most cash to rape the rewardpool.

Also, if a given token's only value proposition is only to get votes in STEEM, then it should not have value. The token should be able to stand alone.

08.10.2019 07:44

The over proliferation of bid bots was of course a problem and changing Steem with a hard fork to address that behaviour was fine. However here we are talking about a complete war against bid bots and promotion of posts in full, I object to that premise.

You used that word that is so emotive "rape of the reward pool" I would prefer the word plunder which is what you actually mean. However I don't agree that applies, that is to take something for nothing. A user has for whatever reasons decided to sell their vote (actually their share of the reward pool or what happens to it) another users buys it.

Now according to the Steemit FAQ's abuse is "Selling or offering to buy votes/resteems/follows, or schemes that facilitate this." so really bid bots never should of got off the ground. However I personally think they have been good for Steem and having the ability to delegate your stake for payment, with zero risks, is in my view a big selling point for Steem. Sites like Bit Lending Club, BTCpop have not worked because of the fraud aspect.

I take your point on the bots doing manual curation to pay passive investors but I don't think HF21 went far enough with the split, I wanted a reverse or even more 20/80 to the curators. Of course its one thing to reward curation but yet another to get the right curation from the users and that alas is where (I believe) it will all fall down.

I do not believe, rightly or wrongly, that the Steem price fell because of bid bots. I think the bear market and the way steem inc was run are to blame, no real updates to the block chain or the front end either.

As per the tokens I never said that a tokens only value proposition was to get votes in Steem but that for a lot of projects that acquire a lot of SP doing so will add value to the token, for many tokens it will be the only monetary value. However isn't there a case for Steem to recognise the value a token brings in building a community on the platform.

So I am saying if that community is adding benefit to Steem then by allowing up votes from the reward pool you are rewarding the value they are bringing. I certainly believe the tribes are doing that. This shouldn't be a problem since it is the portion of the reward pool they own by their collective commitment to Steem in the form of the SP they own.

Perhaps these tokens won't stand alone I am ambivalent on that either way, my only observation to their worth was the tribe aspect (Community) they have empowered. If that leads to the success of Steem then the Reward Pool portion that is used for their value, would be money well spent. That reminds me, another thing that Steem Inc was supposed to deliver and didn't, Communities.

Actually just visited Steembottracker, not been there for a long time and there are now only a handful of bid bots, I shall be eagerly awaiting the Steem price increase that should be coming real soon.

08.10.2019 19:21

It would be good to see you more on sportstalk. Im a gambler myself and like reading posts about betting

08.10.2019 10:23

I'm still struggling a bit with sportstalk, it seems a bit slower to me and the fact that it's needed to have separate voting accounts really makes everything overly complicated. I have steemauto running on it but votes don't seem to be coming through consistently. I'll see if I can sort everything out and mabye start using it as my main steem interface.

13.10.2019 17:36

It seems sad they are no longer just targeting shitposts and people who are buying excessively to get onto the trending pages. I think their current approach is harmful to steem (and is targeting people, like you and I, who have invested in steem.) They now appear to be on an almost religious/fanatical/fascistic mission to change steem, and to force everyone to comply with their vision of "NewSteem". This is dangerous.

Will they target @actifit upvotes next? What about the exchange of @partiko points for steem upvotes?

I too, after investing two years and a considerable, amount of my own fiat, have considered leaving.

But I will not be bullied.

The price of steem is not affected directly by the use of bidbots. It is what people use the steem they earn for that is important.

I decided that for every "Cease and Desist" message and downvote I will give one of their posts an upvote by converting my SPORTS tokens into STEEM by using @sportsvoter.
Screenshot 20191008 at 16.39.22.png
Let's see if they downvote that.

08.10.2019 14:45

Smart thinking, there are so many inconsistencies in their crusade it's just insane. This post also got supported by a friend with a buildawhale upvote, is that also not allowed. While their post getting upvoted by sportsvoter probably is.

I guess they will have to kill the Actifit project targetting the AFIT to STEEM conversion upvotes. They likely won't do that though. All this looks like is big accounts wanting to earn more using their free whale downvotes to nuke smaller accounts to make it go back into the rewards pool of which most of it flows back to them. The sad thing is that it's a lose-lose situation because making it impossible to get anything going for new people on this platform (unless you are in the curation circle) along with no reason for passive investors to get a return on an inflating coin. What reason is there left to buy and power up Steem I really wonder ?

09.10.2019 09:48

We'll see what happens next. I have a feeling there is going to be a backlash. There are a lot of people who think they are going too far. They haven't replied to my questions about Actifit and how that is different to Sportsvoter. I am just waiting for their next move I have responses planned. I think I'm going to have some fun!

09.10.2019 10:06

They will eventually downvote everything, until they get to the point where all they can downvote is each other, and then they will eat themselves, because they convinced themselves so thoroughly that #newsteem would bring value to the platform that they cannot bear stopping until it does.

Since the mechanism for that to happen is imaginary, they're going to be at it for a while.

Steem might become usable again once they're done, who knows.


10.10.2019 05:38

This post is supported by @tipU upvote funded by @beat-the-bookies :)
profit sharing tokens | For investors.

08.10.2019 18:14

I appreciate that you bring up a point that, as far as I know, nobody has ever argued with, but the #newsteem team has consistently just decided to ignore: there simply aren't enough whales with a diverse set of interests to support a broad range of quality content here. Sportsbetting, even as a whole, is a great example. I don't think there's any whale who cares about sportsbetting, much less your rather niche sportsbetting. I don't think there's anyone with a meaningful vote who knows or cares much about advantage gambling at all, the largest probably being either me or @gank depending on how you want to count what SP is where, and I learned long ago that voting is pointless. (Gank isn't much of a voter either.)

So the whole idea of quality content being supported falls apart, or boils down to "you should really be posting about blockchain and/or libertarianism" because those are the subjects we actually have a population of voting SP that particularly and reliably cares about.

None of this has ever been a secret, they just decided that their thing was going to work anyway because reasons.


10.10.2019 05:56

Steem is infrastructure - go for the wordpress blog, I personally am setting up wordpress as a service for people.

Then steem is an addon. We can easily port the good comments back to wordpress, and stay in touch with our friends. If the nickels from steem pay the hosting costs, we are golden - and free to grow in the most prudent direction for each person/blog/business.

10.10.2019 14:33

Hi @costanza!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 3.992 which ranks you at #4073 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has not changed in the last three days.

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 92 contributions, your post is ranked at #38.

Evaluation of your UA score:
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  • The readers like your work!
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10.10.2019 16:35