The cost of being an abuser on Steem


I wasn't going to give them the attention with a post, cause lately it seems that's what they want since they may have given up on anything else on the platform, but since many users are asking me in DMs and in our OCD discord what's up with the out of nowhere downvotes on their comments on mine, some other people and the team of ocd curator's posts I figured I'd give an explanation.

From my perspective when the EIP hit the worst thing someone could do is discourage users to use their downvotes on what they thought was disagreement on rewards. Of course similar to upvote curation many don't have the time to go out looking for this so they delegated or follow the votes of users or projects they trust will do a good job at it. Now out of fear of having their ROI taken away from them from all that vote-trading many started lashing out and threatening anyone who dared using their downvotes on their posts whether manually or by following a trail with retaliation downvotes. Of course the majority of users who would threaten were big SP accounts and once they started hitting back minnows 2-10x harder than they ever could no matter the content it did trigger me pretty hard. Especially considering the EIP wanted to normalize downvotes a bit more along with the name change from flags and just because some people who'd gotten too comfortable buying votes and vote-trading their content up and earning that ROI + attention didn't like seeing downvotes land on their post was not an excuse to go all out war - save that for malicious/retaliation downvotes where you believe there's ulterior motives to them than just random disagreement of rewards.

Anyway to keep this short many realized what they were doing was wrong and stopped the "attacks" and I have respect for those users, especially those who as soon as the EIP hit they changed their ways and even more so those who never went down this vote-trading path to begin with, you da real MVP's.

Now some extra stubborn users still continued down this path and at the same time attempted to post garbage content they could vote-trade even though they been busted by steemcleaners for plagiarising or were on several other blacklists because of their content. When I noticed them going after smaller users I intervened and ever since then it's been a pretty annoying bother. We gave them plenty of chances to change their ways, to not attempt to gain post rewards by literal gibberish or photos going through a filter app to be called art but stubbornness is a stubborn trait.

So to make things clear, this part here is a lie, which is probably why it was edited in so late in his rambling comment:

even though most of their comment section looked like Steem from 2017 when all those bot accounts joined that only commented with "nice post" or "good" just to get a vote, I never personally downvoted the comments left on their posts. Didn't even begin to think it since their posts almost never got any comments and when they did it was mostly this:

Yes, these were all the comments in two of his recent posts, it was hard to scroll through to find them cause they are attempting to hide their history now by spamming korean posts trying to suck up to them knowing they are a bit against downvotes and attempting to play the victim role. How resteeming random posts in korean is going to help their case is beyond me but then again they barely spoke english either while attempting to run steemit "steem schools" so what's the big difference.

So what they have resulted in doing now is downvoting anyone commentating on people that called them out on their shit and downvoted them. Here's where the beauty of the chain comes into play. Say they downvote 10 comments at 5%, all it takes for me would be to counter it with a higher percentage, then they either have their other abuser friend come in and drop another downvote or they have to re-vote which as you know costs you twice the mana cause when you unvote you don't gain that spent voting power back. Did I mention they are stubborn, though? They keep on re-voting just to get those comments "censored" as they like to call it which in turn costs them more and more downvote mana and over time more and more users from the community have noticed their shitty behavior and come to counter the malicious downvotes. There is a cap to what they can downvote in terms of their combined Steem Power and mana, since they are so stubborn to re-downvote these comments after someone counters them they are now dipping into their upvote mana to use it as downvotes which in turn costs them curation rewards (you know that thing which was the reason no downvotes happened pre-EIP and enabled garbage authors like these two to bid bot and vote-trade themselves to a high reputation).

Now of course you may say oh well curation is not much now anyway and price of Steem is low so doubt they care as long as they feel they are damaging the authors they go after. This might be true but with a higher price of Steem it is going to cost them more and more over time and the longer they keep this up the less ROI they'll be earning which is what they were attempting to game to begin with, although I'm sure their motives were elsewhere as well as to keep up the image of being successful on the chain and tricking more newcomers into joining their steem school project they started and from what I've been hearing of what goes on there it ain't pretty.

Ever since the EIP they've been malicious with their downvotes, defensive of their garbage content instead of working on improving it or just writing in their own language and building up a community and doing something that could benefit Steem and their own investment. Lie, cheat, steal, repeat. That's all they know and they probably think they are being super clever now with their new downvoting tactics to hurt authors with real engagement and comments. The beauty here is that the curve has made comments pretty unprofitable in general, so those commenting aren't doing it for an upvote and the users voting up the comments aren't getting much curation out of it either. I've personally always either replied to comments on my posts or acknowledged having read them with a small vote because I appreciate people taking the time to comment on my posts and others, this is after the years of seeing authors on autopayroll that would just come in, drop their daily posts and not give two shits about their comment section or engagements. We've seen how that has worked out for our king author on the chain that boasts about his followers while his content is uninteresting, garbage and barely anyone gives a fuck to engage in them.

Anyway, these are just some small inconveniences now, they may get bigger if these two idiots happen to win the lottery and buy a ton more steem but over time still the community banding together and countering these downvotes together as to not have the authors have to re-vote themselves and waste mana while sacrificing curation rewards will win over those few who won't grow in numbers because the majority of the platform realizes what douchebags they are no matter the lies they keep coming up with. They'll continue to waste their mana and curation rewards while their reputation score is slowly but surely going to keep dropping as they'll have a majority of the community after them until the time comes when they'll give up and decide to pack their bags and start fresh. Over time I am certain there will be more and more projects, communities and users that will weigh in and sacrifice part of their curation rewards to help counter malicious downvotes for the betterment of Steem and its decent users. Shoutout to @steemflagrewards for already having a "healing" initiative in their discord but not enough stake to keep up with it, so if you feel generous then throw them some delegation so they can cover more ground - I know I will once I am able to.

To those affected by these downvotes I just wanna say not to worry even if someone doesn't come along to counter them. Right now it's kind of a bother to manually go through them and each time they re-vote but with @howo's downvotecontrol it's going to be a breeze once we automate it. Until we go there let's give these two a few last chances to go 180 if they still want to remain relevant on this platform. The clock is ticking, communities are already here along with the mute feature, soon SMT's will come along with oracles and who knows what other features that will not tolerate these kind of abusers and allow them to participate in their reward pools and communities.

They will be officially ghosts stuck in the dark/deep web of Steem where anything they do is automated and the only ROI they're getting is from SP inflating, that sounds like a lot of fun, eh! I'm starting to like the EIP more and more lately, some situations that fix themselves I hadn't even considered to begin with, nice.

What do you think, do these downvotes deter you from writing on authors posts you'd usually drop a comment on?

See you on the top,
always
Steem on



Comments 116


I was going to writ a post about this as the have been downvoting all of the comments on my posts too, and I never downvoted otheir follower comments - although I did downvote a few of theirs as I was testing the effect on reputation. However, they were already greyed out for the most part and it took nothing from them.

I figure they are trying to "scare people away" from commenting on our posts for some reason. So far, I have been healing what I can because even though I know that most of the people who comment understand the game, some don't. However, I am considering just leaving them greyed out instead to show what these kinds of people are like. Pretty piss poor and pathetic behavior, but then - this is steem :)

01.02.2020 18:52
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Honestly it probably is a better idea to just leave them be until enough is enough and everything they downvote will be auto-countered, I doubt it's actually deterring users from commenting.

This is bullish for the engage token, though. ;)

!ENGAGE 20

01.02.2020 19:06
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This is bullish for the engage token, though.

To the moon!

01.02.2020 19:24
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!ENGAGE 25

Bullish 😁

Hopefully people will continue to comment. Clearly not much was learnt at Steem School 🤦🏻‍♂️

01.02.2020 19:54
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the entire concept of the EIP is garbage

04.02.2020 03:08
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Yeah, I saw this today. Like you say, all that nonsense does is truly expose them for what they are.

Never a dull moment!

01.02.2020 18:57
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Imaging the time and energy they spend on being petty instead of doing something that would help their investment, there's all kinds of people in this world. Decentralization, eh. :D I like the new consequences to those choosing to behave like that though, Steem is going to be interesting once votes have some real power behind them with a 10-100x price increase. :)

01.02.2020 19:03
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It's the manual bit that astonishes me. If I was pissed off with this place or people here I would probably just go dormant, Iwouldn't bother logging in and voting people up or down.

And there is that. You gotta look to your potential future, investment wise!

01.02.2020 19:30
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Yeah I'm honestly surprised at the dedication, they go through their rounds many times per day even, lmao.

01.02.2020 19:34
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To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

01.02.2020 19:01
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I've had a lot of my comments downvoted lately and it was surprising, I thought we've past this Stage? In fact I was going to write a Post to ask why innocent engager are being downvoted but well seems like I have the answer, this isn't really cool at all

01.02.2020 19:06
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It's their last resort I guess to attempt to be as damaging as possible but not realizing that the majority don't really care about downvotes on comments. :)

01.02.2020 19:07
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Here it actually comes, we've been hit

01.02.2020 19:12
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Haha imagine spending your day doing this. xD

01.02.2020 19:14
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It looks like death throes to me

01.02.2020 19:06
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Hello @acidyo, very timely and interesting your post, I appreciate it very much. It has happened to me in these days, that I have commented on your post and Eric's @anomadsoul, and one of those accounts you mention, is dedicated to give downvotes to all of us who take the time to comment because we like the publication and we want to interact in positive, wanting to grow this wonderful platform. The day will come when the abuses of this type of people will end, while we continue to comment and create quality content to make this wonderful sea grow in a positive way. I, particularly, feel very grateful for Steemit, being here has been for me only growth and so I strive every day to improve my content to make this the best platform. These people don't discourage me at all, I will keep on commenting as always the contents that I find of quality. Thank you very much for this space. I support your words from here, Venezuela...

01.02.2020 19:09
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!ENGAGE 50

here's some value they can't take away, and there will be more and more like that coming with SMT's soon. :)

01.02.2020 19:22
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I see another problem: Poeple are using tools like steemauto and voting on abusers, I don't understand why steemauto doesn't support steemcleaners or global api blacklist. Optionally, every steemauto user should be able to set own blacklist

01.02.2020 19:42
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This is actually a good idea and something I hadn't thought of before, could be worth contacting it's dev and discuss it.

01.02.2020 19:52
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Please, take note of mmmmkkk311 ramped Dving abuse against the @SBI community.

02.02.2020 04:55
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stop milking Steem blockchain

02.02.2020 15:56
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@mmmmkkkk311 is attempting to use his flags to intimidate Steemians into abandoning their support for @steembasicincome.

He baselessly claims it is a "ponzi scheme" which just shows that either he doesn't understand how it works or (more likely) he just doesn't understand what a ponzi scheme even is! And the blatant hypocrisy in him trying to fight "vote selling" when that is exactly what he did with his bidbot! As as bidbot owner with over a dozen alt accounts he is in no place to judge what is right or wrong here on Steem. Now he is mad that his scam has ended. So like an upset child, he has decided to take out his anger (caused only by his own failures) on other innocent people. Making him nothing more than a big bully!

MK admits to running a bidbot

[Actual account who was "wrecked by @mmmmkkkk311 (for holding sbi shares)"](https://steemit.com/@yapcat)

bully.png

I am here to counter @mmmmkkkk311's bullying. I will upvote every post/comment that he downvotes. You can support my anti bullying upvotes by delegating (links below) Steem Power to @ilovemk311. And you can help keep this message visible by upvoting this comment or by purchasing SBI shares for @mk311isabully which will help to counter the downvotes that @mmmmkkkk311 will surely send my way. Which I highly encourage him to do as the more downvoting power he wastes on me the less he can use to downvote the real content creators here on Steem that would otherwise become his victims!

Choose a delegation amount

5 | 10 | 20 | 50 | 100 | 500 | 1000

external-content.duckduckgo-1.jpg

I ask YOU my fellow Steemians to help me take a stand for our Steem community.

With this jerk bullying innocent people we are seeing many great content creators leave due to the drama and negativity that @mmmmkkkk311's downvote campaign brings to the blockchain. While he claims he is trying to defend his investment he is actually unwittingly destroying it.

SBI is an initiative that has done nothing but help promote onboarding and community building here on the Steem blockchain. Let us not turn our back on it out of fear for getting downvoted. Instead lets stand up for this great initiative that has helped so many people and helped the Steem community to grow and thrive!

Thank you.

02.02.2020 23:35
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I'm a bit conflicted with SBI myself and some other similar services such as qurator, it's kind of a grey area and reminds me of @backscratcher but am not too familiar with how they work to say anything more. Hoping there's more curation to it than what it seems but I understand some people do not like the way they run things and use their downvotes to express it.

02.02.2020 18:30
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@acidyo, you can speak with @josephsavage to answer any questions you might have. Mmkk doesn't understand it either, nor does he care. Anytime joseph and others have tried to speak with mmkk, he runs and sticks to his claims. Lots of people have come out stating what kind of person joseph is and the benefit that they've gotten from the program. mmkk has virtually no one on his side and still continues his solo crusade.

02.02.2020 21:55
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Seems a bit strange he unvoted our witness right after these comments even though I mentioned that I'm not too familiar with SBI but what I've heard is that it's not so much curation than receiving votes depending on the delegations. Only times I've found it annoying is when votes land on comments of those who aren't active posters as it tends to turn a lot of comments highest up in the comment section no matter the comment so I figured the voting of the posts was similar (without oversight). Oh well, pretty passive aggressive move to unvote us the one time I comment about SBI. :)

04.02.2020 08:30
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He did something similar when @c-squared UV and resteemed: Steem N' Roses: My Response to the Attacks on the SBI Community as a Whole.

In a different thread, when mk was contacted by one of the head people of c-s, a she, he said that he would give back the WV if they complied with him and remove the UV. She didn't. And that was that.

what I've heard is that it's not so much curation than receiving votes depending on the delegations.

If you look at the people buying into @SBI program, you will find most of them put a lot of work into what they post. Since most people don't give away shares at complete random, you will further find more people who are putting in the work. Isn't this what we want on the platform? Do they get "curated" by a human every time they post? I'm pretty sure not. Taking into account the above two sentences, those who don't get blacklisted from the multiple quality blacklisting providers, which in turn gets them BL'ed from receiving SBI - "oversight", will receive their UV on just about every post they make. For those just starting out on the platform, have an UV, no matter how small, helps with user retention. Isn't this what we need and want?

MK doesn't seem to understand any of this, so his lone crusade (thus far) is actually going against his statement of wanting to keep his investment safe. He's repeatedly, like a person with down syndrome who must repeat himself in three's and must have you repeat in back in three's, shooting himself in the foot. His action and words speak for themselves if you'd like to take a look.

Only times I've found it annoying is when votes land on comments of those who aren't active posters

This is about the only thing that I've agreed with mk on. From what I've read, that had been at the discussion table for a while before mk attacks. When when I became aware of mk's actions about two weeks later @josephsavage put an immediate stop to it. So, that is no longer happening. (Damn, I wasn't aware that I was receiving them on my comments before all of this started to happen. lol. I can understand why most of my comments shouldn't be getting a skinny/fat UV.) - Problem solved. Let's move on, mk, mk, mk. LOL

04.02.2020 17:08
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Sure I get that, there's a lot of investors here who shoot themselves in the foot, many who frequent my post and downvote anyone commenting on them and then they go after their posts and comment section too. It's not like I was agreeing with mk nor am I aware of his actions nor was I completely aware of how SBI works. There's a lot of projects out there and not so much time to get into the root of their system, you would think the owner would show up with some facts instead of unvoting a witness that works on improving Steem with manual curation and onboarding + retention. It makes the case look even worse from my perspective if he becomes this defensive instead of debating the case.

04.02.2020 19:19
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I give away 10 SBI shares to winners of the Shadow Contest every week. We are celebrating the 2 year anniversary of the Contest this week. And I get downvoted by mmmkkkk. I give away 2 SBI shares every week to the 40th place winner on Asher's Engagement League Post.... And I get a downvote from him for doing that. An artist friend in France did a contest this week to support my #FeatheredFriends tag and innocently gave away SBI. She does not deserve his downvotes. He is a huge discouragement to a lot of us who put a lot of time and energy into making Steem a good place to be.

06.02.2020 05:48
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Curating Quality USERS.

02.02.2020 22:18
0

Is it curation, though?

04.02.2020 08:32
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User curation is curation in my opinion, but I am used to people disagreeing with me.

04.02.2020 12:12
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I'm sure other similar ones like holger80's auto service and buildteams would be onboard with it as well.

01.02.2020 19:53
0

you can ignore voting on certain accounts with steemrewarding, but I think these tools blocking access for blacklisted accounts is an interesting idea.

01.02.2020 20:01
0

@mmmmkkkk311 is attempting to use his flags to intimidate Steemians into abandoning their support for @steembasicincome.

He baselessly claims it is a "ponzi scheme" which just shows that either he doesn't understand how it works or (more likely) he just doesn't understand what a ponzi scheme even is! And the blatant hypocrisy in him trying to fight "vote selling" when that is exactly what he did with his bidbot! As as bidbot owner with over a dozen alt accounts he is in no place to judge what is right or wrong here on Steem. Now he is mad that his scam has ended. So like an upset child, he has decided to take out his anger (caused only by his own failures) on other innocent people. Making him nothing more than a big bully!

MK admits to running a bidbot

[Actual account who was "wrecked by @mmmmkkkk311 (for holding sbi shares)"](https://steemit.com/@yapcat)

bully.png

I am here to counter @mmmmkkkk311's bullying. I will upvote every post/comment that he downvotes. You can support my anti bullying upvotes by delegating (links below) Steem Power to @ilovemk311. And you can help keep this message visible by upvoting this comment or by purchasing SBI shares for @mk311isabully which will help to counter the downvotes that @mmmmkkkk311 will surely send my way. Which I highly encourage him to do as the more downvoting power he wastes on me the less he can use to downvote the real content creators here on Steem that would otherwise become his victims!

Choose a delegation amount

5 | 10 | 20 | 50 | 100 | 500 | 1000

external-content.duckduckgo-1.jpg

I ask YOU my fellow Steemians to help me take a stand for our Steem community.

With this jerk bullying innocent people we are seeing many great content creators leave due to the drama and negativity that @mmmmkkkk311's downvote campaign brings to the blockchain. While he claims he is trying to defend his investment he is actually unwittingly destroying it.

SBI is an initiative that has done nothing but help promote onboarding and community building here on the Steem blockchain. Let us not turn our back on it out of fear for getting downvoted. Instead lets stand up for this great initiative that has helped so many people and helped the Steem community to grow and thrive!

Thank you.

01.02.2020 23:35
0

klarou12 lol

Banned from sportstalksocial for abuse, not going to well if that’s the only account commentating one your stuff.

01.02.2020 19:59
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Downvotes on the comments or posts of users who for various reasons don't really know the technicalities of the platform can be hurtful and influence them to stop engaging.

01.02.2020 20:40
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That's exactly their goal and why I'm bringing it up, it's revenge cause they couldn't get their ways of maximizing ROI for garbage content. At least it's getting costly for them to do so since they are thickskulled and think they can keep this going and actually drive away real engagement.

01.02.2020 21:12
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Lol, barely was 100% in agreement with you @acidyo within the last months, this one gets a 200% lol based on what we spoke about yesterday - I will repost the happening on stubborn folks later today so they can be prepared to flag it!
Interestingly these guy flag all comments people do on my posts. Everyone can do what they want here but some people simply do not get it and are unable to accept things. A lot of us want to get rewarded here, no doubt, but milking and destroying this opportunity is not acceptable.

Thanks for that post and to make me smile with this ending - hilarious!

Screen Shot 2020-02-01 at 21.41.37.png

01.02.2020 20:46
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There are some people who will never get it and will just strike out as they can do it pretty anonymously with little change of retaliation if they are not posting. We just need more of the community to help counter their actions. The more of us there are the thinner their flags get spread. I have had one or two flags from them and thanks for countering that. Not that I really care too much about losing a few cents on a comment. I have been flagged so much that it does not bother me now. I will keep powering up and doing what I can to help.

01.02.2020 21:05
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You've been one of the most dedicated downvoters of abuse and overrewarded garbage even before the EIP and I have a lot of respect for that, especially since you've not had a lot of stake and actively been posting and commenting which can get annoying with retaliation by ranchowhales and all those other scrubs. Thanks for what you do.

01.02.2020 21:10
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Cheers. I care about this community and will do what I can with my limited resources. Getting feedback like this more than makes up for the flack I get.

Inevitably the dipshit cancelled your vote on my previous comment, but no big deal.

01.02.2020 21:11
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!ENGAGE 50

01.02.2020 21:13
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@acidyo, I am a Full Time Steemian and i am passionately engaging with my fellow Steemains, i am doing it for both Passion and Rewards because for me Steem Journey is Awakening Journey and every effort counts for me no matter i am getting less or more rewards in return.

These kind of Downvotes definitely demotivates because sometimes people don't think about next person's position and about their circumstances, people are putting their emotions and thoughts into Engaging Comments and someone is coming from nowhere to Downvote it without any reason, it sounds meaningless and most importantly it reflects Lack Of Emotions.

In past I've received False Downvotes on my Blogs, i know i was right and I've communicated with Experienced Steemians and Community Members* to look into the matter and after that issue got resolved. If we want to resolve something it's just a matter of one right step.

These Downvotes will not long last but Goodness, Right Mindset and Communities will long last and i am always passionate about my Steem Journey and Engagement no matter what obstacles i am facing here.

With Steem we can do so so much good if we want. Stay blessed brother. 🙂

Posted using Partiko Android

01.02.2020 21:16
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We worked on countering a few of those downvotes on others.

I'll look into developing a script that will make use of our spare VP to further assist.

It's important for us to stick together and show these flag abusers the futility of their efforts. Have you considered using beneficiary comments as a mechanism to get them to waste VP.

That was one of my favorite tricks to deal with it. They would get so mad. Lol

01.02.2020 21:17
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I do not comment as often as I want and have not noticed this problem. Does one have to go back to a post that a comment was left on or can that be seen somewhere else ie. steemworld?

01.02.2020 21:24
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Answered my own question. Do these downvotes affect my account in any way other than reducing the payout which is 0 unless someone gave me an upvote?

01.02.2020 21:33
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You may lose some reputation depending on their reputation and the downvote power.

01.02.2020 22:38
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It's fine.

01.02.2020 23:46
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malicious/retaliation downvotes

I have a few of those. This was the reason I wanted to see an auto comment on down votes. Right now you can only down vote bad actors if they post or comment. With an auto down vote comment, you now have a method to down vote the down voter. The community on steem block chain can do absolutely nothing about the camillesteemer bot army other than to keep petitioning @steem to remove their delegation.

At least with these two they do have current comments and post for now that can be down voted. Steem Block Chain needs to closely look at being able to counter the "malicious/retaliation downvotes". For now it has not gotten to bad, but it can, and Steem Block Chain needs to be prepared for when it does happen.

An auto downvote comment is the only method for the community to control this type of action. Then the community can decide if the down vote was justified. Oh and they should use the phishy red text to highlight the comment and make it very visible, and also to keep it visible even when it has been down voted, (not greyed out/hidden), so that other visitors to the page can clearly see and choose if they want to down vote pile on the bad actor.

01.02.2020 21:36
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I think instead we just need to scrape the reputation score altogether, especially after the bid bot era it holds even less value than it would've have originally done. Probably simplest solution and then look for other ones on communities or a possible SMT backed rep score.

01.02.2020 21:42
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That still does nothing to allow the community to assist in controlling the bad actors, which it seems is what that part of EIP and Down votes were intended to do.

I know people seem to not care about the camille army of silent down voters, after all even after 9 months the most they can down vote is $0.010.

Now what are the larger accounts going to do when they have a silent twin pair down voting with 180,000SP and 198,000SP, and there is nothing you can do other than black list them, which wont work because once they become silent down voters, there is nothing that can be done, unless steem block chain becomes just like facebook and youtube and allow for the blanket censorship of individual via shadow banning them on all front ends.

There really is nothing wrong with the REP score now, it is much harder for people to buy a reputation, and it does provide some retaliatory down vote protection, and as the use of of the up and down votes are sorted out the Reputation score value will recover some.

Bad actors/pissed off people, angry at the perceived man, unable to accept responsibility for their action, people are going to find a way to retaliate, and retaliate they will.

Currently the only individuals that can effect their Reputation scores, that can lower their reputation are those that have a higher than 72 REP in one case and 77 REP in the other. There are only a few active accounts above that 77 REP range that actually up and down vote post, most are just curation account voters who care little for the down vote side of things.

01.02.2020 23:18
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it is much harder for people to buy a reputation

Yes, but I'm saying it's been too long of a period of vote-trading and buying that the majority of reputation of users is not based on actual genuine curation for it to matter anymore. It would just be way better to reset or strike it altogether now before the masses start coming in. Your solutions to the problems seem to be with the reputation existing in mind hence I want to point out that removing it completely would be way better. I doubt there's many curators or curation projects that are relying on the reputation score to curate, if they do it's also wrong as it should be about the content mainly and then about the users, their actual reputation on the chain and what they do for Steem etc on the side.

It's the same problem with Haejin, he's not commenting anymore nor posting so we can't bring down his reputation nor is there another account except for steemsports I think that has a higher rep to affect it properly and the cost is immense to bring it down even with the free downvotes it will take ages.

02.02.2020 18:21
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It is a problem, no doubt about that. A total removal, and the ability of small accounts to effect larger accounts is going to be a very hard sell, I can see where doing away with it would be a good thing, Perhaps we as a community need to come together and decide if there really needs to be a Social Credit Score type thing for the steem block chain. No SCS could be a selling point to many that do not favor the appearance of one person is better than another based on a superficial scoring system.

02.02.2020 19:11
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!ENGAGE 30

02.02.2020 18:25
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No, please don't take rep away; it is one of the few motivations beside of pure greed...

02.02.2020 08:26
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But it goes up based on upvotes received, if there were other factors I could see it have value but it's only from that and a bit dependent on the reps of users voting (I think). I'm hoping there will be other factors (think the curation league of @abh12345) that would affect the reputation score, so I'm hopeful there will be better solutions to an improved on in the near future. steem-ua was on the right track but not great either and they pretty much abandoned the project from the looks of it, or at least it's development.

02.02.2020 18:24
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I can’t wait for the beta site to move to production. Spammers like to retaliate by going after comments as they can do more damage with less stake.

Under the beta, comments are not hidden unless you are negative rep, so this attack will be pointless. This does open the door to spammers and harassers comments not being hidden as well though.

I am all too familiar with the comment attacking.

01.02.2020 21:42
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This does open the door to spammers and harassers comments not being hidden as well though

As long as negative rep is still hidden then spammers can be dealt with by bringing their rep down below zero, and even harassers too unless they are getting upvotes some other way to maintain their rep, but even in the latter case the downvotes they are getting in response to their harassment is costing them money.

Rep below zero being hidden was the main motivation for the rep system in the first place. It was considered a waste of effort and vote power to have to downvote every single individual spam comment.

02.02.2020 03:54
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I'm all for the change and looking forward to it, but there are a lot of spammers who have built up rep that can cost hundreds of even a thousand dollars or more in downvotes to get them below zero.

Even a (25) account takes a decent amount of downvotes to zero out, with free accounts easy to make it's not harder to suppress the spam than it is to create it. There are also other issues that are not solved, like notifications still get flooded with this spam, ginabot notifications, the fact they still show up in your replies.

When you have been fighting abuse as long as I have, this is what you get to look forward to.

Each one of these is a reply to anyone who comments on my posts or replies to my comments. Some days I can't even use /recent_replies or notifications.

02.02.2020 04:09
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There are also other issues that are not solved, like notifications still get flooded with this spam, ginabot notifications, the fact they still show up in your replies

Seems like UI problems. You should be able to mute notifications from annoying spammers, hide them from recent replies, etc.

From the oher reply it looks like esteem is taking some steps on this. Other UIs need to as well.

02.02.2020 04:43
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Sounds dreamy.

02.02.2020 04:44
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How does downvotes even change this? You don't get notified of mentions if there is a downvote? Not even sure how that would work.

02.02.2020 04:45
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You take away someone's milk, they have a fit.

02.02.2020 04:46
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I mean the change where downvoted comments are hidden vs not hidden. I don't see how it matters to this.

Every problem (like shitty notifiers) is not a core platform issue.

02.02.2020 04:47
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Well, I can give lots of examples, but a good one is cemalbaba who drops endless dick pics in the comment section when he got flagged.

02.02.2020 04:49
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Marky, would you be in favor of a reduction of the 'free' downvote pool from 30%? I am thinking 10%. Because 30 was arbitrary, another lower number will give us perspective as a blockchain on downvotes. From there we can resume the conversation.

02.02.2020 22:12
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It's 25% now and I think that is a good amount. It wasn't arbitrary, a lot of thought went into how much and we felt 10% wasn't enough. 98% of users don't even use them.

02.02.2020 22:15
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Hey, thank you for all that feedback, I know a lot of discussion went in, I said arbitrary because how could anyone really know what the effects would be.

I would should perhaps be more supportive of delegating my downvotes to scam and plagerism fighting. I think 98% of users don't support most of the downvotes that they see. (that much of the real crime fighting doesn't get seen, I am aware of).

And a lot of steem is going the way of obfuscation anyway, through tribes and smts...

02.02.2020 22:40
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There is only a tiny handful of people actually using downvotes to better the platform.

02.02.2020 22:42
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That's kind of my point. Are we sure these clear benefits are not being offset by negative consequences? (ie the scammers now have downvotes)

02.02.2020 22:43
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Cops don’t get rid of guns because criminals have them as well.

02.02.2020 22:48
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I respectfully have to point out this difference: Guns always exist in that analogy. We code the guns into the chain here.

02.02.2020 22:50
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They are a balance, without them we would become Whaleshares and people will just make account preservation posts and milk rewards without any challenge.

Without downvotes we would have 1000 Haejins until we ultimately become worthless.

02.02.2020 22:53
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Well, I am honestly impressed on how that cleared up....

Hows ranchorelaxo is he a curator now?

I appreciate the real talk! Also, I feel like a @rhymebot vote just for your fun hyperbole there :)

We are facing strong downvote pressure from a single user in the @steembasicincome community. We are working on unleashing the program to allow balance delivery curation style, but either way our users are not scammers and we support global blacklists like the one you run.

It is in this vein that I propose a lowering of the downvote pool, but I am open to trying on any and all possible solutions.

02.02.2020 23:01
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Rancho (aka Haejin since he has the keys) is mostly voting the KR community where there is almost no votes so he can get the best curation rewards as possible. Only because that’s the best he can get away with.

As for SBI, the community has taken a stance against paid votes and while SBI isn’t a bid bot it does fall into paid votes category.

02.02.2020 23:14
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you mean @berniesanders lets be honest for once and face the facts?
The entire thing was to get get more people using flags

04.02.2020 03:03
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And by the way, it hasn’t been just Rancho that was cleared up. Many others with similar motives just less stake. For example me-Tarzan is a recent one who was farming near 100% efficiency with a few hundred thousand SP.

02.02.2020 23:30
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yes, I remember him and his automated reports as well....

02.02.2020 23:35
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ho @ecoinstant you know that @ranchorelaxo and the haijin are accounts operated by @berniesanders right? it was an attempt to normalise flags so they can get more of rewards. The same deal with the eip Its about the big SP holders recieving more of the rewards. Milking everyone else including you
@themarkymark will know

04.02.2020 03:26
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I didn't know that. I see the potential to grow past a lot of these 'small platform' problems, I hope I'm not wrong.

05.02.2020 00:50
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You milk the rewards with your partner anyway!

04.02.2020 03:22
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Come on @themarkymark you are one of the top perpetrators of abuse on the platform!
And when you were not a main abuser you were running cover for main abuser!
saying 'ah no nothing to see here'

04.02.2020 03:18
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But these guys were victims !!!!

04.02.2020 03:14
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Yea its one of the tools you friend and partner used isnt it !

04.02.2020 03:13
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I say let them go ahead and go against the grain and continue their abuse they only hurt themselves in the long run for those short term gains and it’s going to come to a point where it jusy becomes less viable

They offer an important lesson and bench mark and while these abusers are here we see we have work to do! Rather fix it now sooner than later

01.02.2020 22:38
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what it really comes down to is power

those that hold SP can stomp on those with less SP; although when folks group together they can use SP en masse.

So I don't think it's a dev problem in the sense of resolving the issue. it is a user issue to resolve

  • either convince flag abuser using reason and logic to stop abuse
    -or-
  • buy enough SP to vote them down (or form strong enough SP alliances to do so), or to counter the abuse

I like option 2...this is supposed to be a decentralized platform, and we cant rely on the devs to fix every abuse of the sytem (imo, it was the free flag that generated this iteration of abuse ;> )

however the system is set up, there will be those that game and abuse it. it is up to those that have the power, to decide how to remedy that for the good of the community

01.02.2020 23:03
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I was on the receiving end of Downvoting on one of your posts and wondered why my comment was so contentious . I was really starting to think I was becoming relevant on Steem, Alas...;)
I have also noticed an awful lot of useless downvotes on my content recently from accounts that have no Mana and have no content, whats that all about?

01.02.2020 23:13
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The latter is just spam, some people just want to go against the grain you know. I'm sure in the future barely anyone will care and it will just be spam on the chain that someone for some reason likes to continue doing but won't have any effect except some people wondering why they exist. Hopefully most front-ends and communities will by then just mute/not show the dust downvotes.

02.02.2020 18:28
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I don't care at all if they downvote any of my comments or posts. I will keep doing the same as I had done, being avtive and supporting ghe community.
Thank you very much for the effort ypu put on helping steem to be a safe place for all!

01.02.2020 23:49
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Well said and it is very, very frustrating to be downvoted on a consistent basis solely because one's content is relevant to the survival of the planet

02.02.2020 00:10
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Damn, Acid! @flysky and @dobartim gets their own post! LOL

They are two of my favorite people on steemit. There are bigger abusers out there, but they are certainly the most dumb people I have seen. They are brothers, so I guess that explains the common gene pool. Nothing can be done about that!. They are effectively shutdown, but they just refuse to quit. You have to give them the tenacity award :)

Flysky: Spammer on 4 blacklists... no author rewards for 2 months +

Screenshot 2020-02-01 at 7.23.21 PM.png

Dobartim: on 2 blacklists, no author rewards for 1 month +

Screenshot 2020-01-31 at 5.24.02 PM.png

Lately they have started voting some koreans. God help us!

02.02.2020 01:31
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At least now they will know!

02.02.2020 02:03
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What do you mean @joshman ?
now they will know?

04.02.2020 03:11
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Thank you for being continually dedicated to improving Steem curation and economically sensible uses of the reward pool.

02.02.2020 03:51
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It seems to me that Bashadow idea is a good idea. The problem of downvotes exists. I have received a few, but without an explanation.

02.02.2020 06:09
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this comment also received a downvote, as if one should also be careful to express one's opinion

02.02.2020 10:39
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You know that I have always fought to fight the abuse and copied content, on our social network and this small problem of downvotes will disappear and I fully agree with you.

The best will go on, and I immediately delegated 500 sp to @steemflagrewards.
What the fuck!
They will stop playing these games sooner or later!

The best will go on, and I immediately delegated 500 sp to @steemflagrewards.What the fuck!They will stop playing these games sooner or later!

02.02.2020 11:25
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Hey @acidyo! Awesome post for a barley amateur blogger how is still very much learning what the hell is going on around here.

Where money is involved, there is always somebody lined up to take advantage of the 'System'. I have alwyas gone by the motto that you should expect to get an equal return on what you put into an 'Experience' or project or whatever. For me Steemit is about meeting people who may or may not share the same interests as me, and to get my voice out there. Share a little of me with this crazy world. I don't know a damn thing about code or blockchain, or whatever.. I just see the front end of everything and sometimes it's ridiculously unnerving and frustrating for someone like me who is not aware (ignorant) of all these concerns. I can't say I have been affected by exactly what your taking about, but have seen it here and there with those I interact with. I see the frustration first hand by reading about it, like here in your post.

Nothing much discourages my vote or my comment, because it still isn't about the rewards for me; more about interacting on a daily basis, being apart of something, and to show I recognize them as part of my life. This doesn't mean I don't care.. completely the opposite. I want to HELP because if my friends get frustrated and leave I will then be alone with my thoughts.. That's not good.. lol.

I read your post twice because for someone like me a list of what to do and not to do is better since I can't comprehend the code and automation stuff well. I read enough of your content that I feel I can trust your judgement. After I get done posting this I will head over to @steemflagrewards and drop them some delegation. I have invested a little here in steem.. not much, but maybe a small difference can be made by me if directed on how. If you think of anything else or have a "guide" sitting around, share please.. I want to be a part of the glue, not the glitter. If this makes any sense. You guys have always been good to me and working hard in the background. I want to give back or help out in a way that my inexperienced mind can. ;-)

Thanks again for the post.. for me, the more I read the more I start to understand. hehe.

See ya around :-D

02.02.2020 14:23
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These downvote accounts are annoying as hell and I think it is worth mentioning that the downvote seems to be an effort to keep people from making certain curation lists. A good example is one curation team that gives mention to posts that receive over a certain amount of upvotes. I haven’t seen them post in a while but I was mentioned twice last summer and immediately was hit with downvotes. The downvotes are worth nothing and do no harm to the SP and Steem generate but they are annoying. I could see downvotes like that causing new users to leave just because when they do downvote, there’s 2 or 3 of them at a time.

02.02.2020 16:49
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Acidyo, as a leader in this community, let's propose that the 'free' downvote pool be lowered from 30% to 10% THIS HARD FORK, and then resume further discussion about the downvotes.

30% was an arbitrary number. And now that we have observed the platform with 30%, I think we should try less.

02.02.2020 22:09
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Nah, fuck those idiots. I'm not worried about their flags. People like them are irrelevant and think their stake makes them important. They are nobodies and have never done anything.

02.02.2020 23:42
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No bro, they don't deter me. I was wondering why this guy flysky downvoted me then unvoted me then downvoted me again. I couldnt figure it out. Now i see. Thanks for the post and for doing what ever you did to make him unvote and waste more RC/VP. I'm not in it for the money anyway! (although it's nice to see all the little bits of rewards come anyway :-)

03.02.2020 23:24
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How about NO rewards (for posting or voting) for those with low reputaion (how low to be defined) after a certain period of joining? Surely there must be some formula we can come up with. idk. just a thought

03.02.2020 23:29
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the EIP wanted to normalize downvotes '''
The EIP is garbage

04.02.2020 03:06
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In October I came back to Steemit after over a year. I spend a lot of time on the content I create. I use my Steem, that has been earned or purchased, to invest in curation pools. The two I use follow reference popular blacklists etc...before voting.
However, my content still gets down voted. Anyway, I guess I just don;t understand the guts of Steemit and the blockchain.
That said, I am probably pulling up anchor and going to find another place to focus on. Just too much BS.

06.02.2020 06:51
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Doesn't look like BS to me. If your content you're not buying votes on is not getting downvoted it should maybe tell you something... or you know, when they explicitly let you know why.

06.02.2020 06:58
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I guess, no problem. Outta here. Enjoy,

06.02.2020 07:03
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:'(

06.02.2020 07:59
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invest in curation pools

First time I've seen vote buying described this way.

06.02.2020 07:25
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First time for everything.
Have a good one.

06.02.2020 08:05
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